He left the sport with an absolutely spectacular record. Where d you rank him as a middleweight? As a welterweight? Pound for Pound? Are there misgivings about his era or the veracity of some of his contests?
Christopher LaForce is working on a book on him. I’m excited to read it. I’d say he’s a top 50 fighter, but I will make a more sober ranking after reading that book. I’ve not studied his era as closely as others.
15 at WW 10 at MW upon my last list WELTER 1. Sugar Ray Robinson 2. Jose Napoles 3. Sugar Ray Leonard 4. Kid Gavilan 5. Emile Griffith 6. Henry Armstrong 7. Floyd Mayweather Jr 8. Jack Britton 9. Tommy Hearns 10. Mickey Walker 11. Joe Walcott 12. Barney Ross 13. Ted Kid Lewis 14. Luis Manuel Rodriguez 15. Tommy Ryan MIDDLE 1. Harry Greb 2. Carlos Monzon 3. Marvin Hagler 4. Bernard Hopkins 5. Sugar Ray Robinson 6. Stanley Ketchel 7. Charley Burley 8. Mike Gibbons 9. Jake LaMotta 10. Tommy Ryan 11. Holman Williams 12. Freddie Steele 13. Mickey Walker 14. D!ck Tiger 15. Bob Fitzsimmons
I think he was a lot better as a Welterweight than a Middleweight, at the very least his record is a lot stronger at that weight and he was always fairly undersized at Middleweight. I think there's a lot to be said for his nearly absurd levels of consistency, only really suffering one loss (plus a soft dq). In terms of his competition, Welterweight certainly wasn't the most prestigous division at that point. He doesn't really have any big ATG wins, but a lot of solid wins over good opponents: Danny Needham, Mysterious Billy Smith, Tommy West, George Green, Frank Craig, Kid Carter,
I think McCoy ranks higher at middleweight, with better wins overall at the weight. Ryan was significantly smaller, and gave McCoy a good fights. Ryan seemed to be getting the better of the second when it was stopped after a good start my McCoy, though it was cut too short to conclude much, and their third was pretty even from the reports too, with some people thinking Ryan had the better of it.
In their 2nd fight Ryan was getting the better of one single round (the one the fight was stopped in), but even then it was him showing more activity than actually having McCoy in trouble. The 3rd bout was an official win for McCoy and so it should stand. The club didn't have the authority to change the result.
Always intriguing when we try to evaluate the fighters of the period 1900/1910 not easy by any means, we have footage of , Johnson, Kecthel, Gans, Fitzsimons, etc, and to my eyes they are not flattered , on a personal note I had a unnatural love for Kecthel, bought all I could find on him , had a couple of his pictures blown up and hung on my bedroom wall ( I know ) yea just idolized the fighter, had him at 2/3 ATG no question, THEN via You-Tube saw him fight, oh dear . So as great as these fighters might seem in the written word, actually I am afraid they wouldn't / couldn't make the cut if fighting in the modern era, so with that in mind I tend to veer towards that prognosis when they are in discussion as to their greatness and rankings. keep well.
The second fight was stopped by the police, while Ryan was getting the better of it. The Syracuse standard says the first two rounds were give and take, and Ryan got the better of the third, and said when it was stopped "McCoy was being whipped" In terms of the third fight, Ryan claimed it was an arranged draw (and that McCoy insisted upon that). Regardless of how it should be recorded, the opinion of the next day reports was the third fight was basically even. Siler stated he though McCoy had the better of the first two, and Ryan had the better of the last two. The Evening Herald (Syracse) says it was pretty inconclusive and the crowd was split on who would win.
I've long thought that Ryan is one of the most underrated fighters of all time - a genuine pound for pound great who, for whatever reason, seldom seems to get a mention. Worth remembering that he was a little fella compared to some other Middleweights of the time - the Welter limit stood at just 142 lb when he was in his prime there, and if it hadn't been for that lower limit and his increasing weight he could probably have remained the best Welterweight in the world for a couple more years yet. Makes his achievements as Middleweight champion all the more meritorious. The legitimate Welter / Middle double is hard enough even these days and Ryan remains one of the relatively few who managed it - with some big name wins in there, too. Super consistent performer in an age where that couldn't be said about many of the better fighters. Has a case to be on the fringes of a pfp top 50, but should be there inside the top 100 at the very least, for me.
