The evidence is quite compelling. Jason Thomas account was created 1 day after Edwards month ban expired but the most obvious is the posting style and the very odd quote style.
The quote style is one of the characteristics I noticed as being alike. But, the more striking similarity is the sheer contrarianism, dressed up as skepticism.
I have. His manager of record as champion was Luigi Soresi, described by Italian sources as a former deputy director of the Commercial Bank of New York. Are these sources incorrect? I will post separately on what I have found out so far about Soresi and his role concerning Carnera's finances.
"Truth is stranger than fiction" Is originally from Lord Byron's Don Juan--"Tis strange but true; for truth is always strange. Stanger than fiction; if it could be told." In 1897, in his Following the Equator: A Journey Around the World, Train wrote--"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities: Truth isn't." In the same year Mark Twain wrote this, the novels Dracula and The Invisible Man were published. Twain is only right if one is trying to write "realistic" fiction. It is obviously not true of fantasy or what is possible for the human imagination. But this cliche is not applicable to a discussion about Carnera anyway, because all of the options could be true. All his fights were fixed. None were. Some were but he won the title on the level. Some were and the title fight was fixed. It is factual evidence, not theories about truth or fiction which decides this for an historian. "The fictional Toro Moreno doesn't win the title." He was also from South American, not Italy. This point was that his story was fiction whether seen as strange or not strange. "You obviously have doubts about Owney Madden's involvement in the fight game" Not at all. I even posted a list of fighters he seemed to be involved with, including Tunney, Baer, and Braddock. I would just like to know what the evidence is he fixed fights for anyone besides Carnera. He was a gangster and the top bootlegger in New York, and I'm sure wouldn't be above fixing fights, but was that his interest in boxing? It is possible to be both a gangster and a sportsman. Truth being stranger than fiction, as they say. "I think you underestimate his reach and influence." Which didn't keep Madden out of Sing Sing. It just seems a stretch that a man in prison would risk staying there by getting involved in fixing a fight, especially the way claimed, by threatening Jack Sharkey's children. I think it would be prudent to keep a low profile, and move out of town when released, which is what he did. As for Gallico, I think the meat of the quote is not about why he thought what he thought, but that most observers disagreed with his take. Is this true or not? As for the betting odds, Carnera is obviously given a good shot at winning the title, which does fly in the face of the take that it was obvious to everyone that he was a hapless oaf with a glass jaw.
Bill Duffy was openly representing Carnera from 1930 onwards. Of course, a syndicate of known racketeers didn't all put their names on the contracts. Soresi might have been the "clean" front, i don't know. And a banker no less, that's convenient. But Duffy was openly managing Carnera too, and is was said that other underworld figures, including Madden, had a piece of Carnera and influence. Known of which is at all hard to believe.
Whether Owney Madden directly 'fixed fights' is unknown. People associated with him almost certainly did, although "hard evidence" might not be easy to come by. Professional fixers tend not to leave hard evidence. Madden certainly had influence in the boxing game. Primo Carnera was toured around the country fighting set-ups, winning the vast amount of his fights, with some suspicious endings to many of those fights, amidst a huge publicity campaign that presented him as an invincible giant. Among his entourage were known crooks and 'Broadway characters', including Bill Duffy. Was Carnera unique in being built on set-ups and suspicious fights and having intimidating figures associated with his management ? NO. That's pretty much par for the course in boxing throughout history. But he's an interesting case.
One of the things which most interests me about Carnera is the discrepancies about his financial state. He filed for bankruptcy on June 17, 1933, just before fighting Sharkey, and apparently was claiming no assets in American courts for years. But he also said this in an interview in 1948 which I posted on a different thread but will repeat here: "I'd have been set for life in Italy if it hadn't been for the war." "It is not true I got no money from my boxing. . . I had some money when the war came along, owned my home, had an American automobile, a Lincoln, and a lot of clothes. I guess I had something like 125 suits, all made to order of course, and nearly as many pairs of shoes." Carnera stated he was robbed in 1942. "I was going to buy some property in Sequals and one day drew my money from the bank, 1.600,000 lira it was, almost $50,000 in American money." He went on that someone tipped off robbers that he had taken the money out of the bank and four men with guns took the money that night. So he seems to have been well off for a man who has no assets. The explanation might be I think Luigi Soresi. According to an Italian source, "After the defeat by Larry Gains, Carnera became aware of the fact that his manager took possession of most of his money and collaborated with the mafia. So he left him and came to Italy where he joined the team of Luigi Soresi." Another Italian source says this, "So Carnera decides to continue, he finds a new manager in Luigi Soresi, former deputy director of the Commercial Bank of New York, who had previously taken care of his banking interests." If this is accurate, Carnera has a financially sophisticated man running his finances. So why bankrupt? There is an online court record from 1935 which might give a clue. The court appointed receiver for the judgment awarded to Emelie Tersini for breach of promise against Carnera points out that Carnera had earned more than $400,000 in the United States since declaring bankruptcy in 1933. Carnera's pose in court was one of total ignorance of his financial affairs. Soresi claims money was lost in investments in the US, and also states that he had purchased two villas in Italy for Carnera. It appears off this that Carnera had lost a breach of promise suit to Emelie Tersini. His supposed lack of assets was convenient. So was his alleged financial ignorance. But what of those Italian villas? Joseph Page has this bit from January, 1938, when Carnera was ill with a kidney problem apparently stemming an injury in his second fight with Leroy Haynes. "A second collapse, this time in the Villa Carnera in mid-January, prompted further medical treatment. On January 29 Primo was taken by ambulance to a hospital in Padua. Here after further examination it was determined that there was no hope to save the damaged right kidney. A surgeon named Dr. Fesiani removed the organ on February 2, 1938." So Carnera already lives in the Villa Carnera if this account is true. One can google VillaCarnera.com on line and see what sort of home it was. Now I don't know what is true or not, but I am more and more doubting the view of Carnera as this simple, financially ignorant, man. It appears he has a man running his affairs who is quite capable of protecting his assets through foreign investments and probably foreign bank accounts. If you have a banker, who needs a gangster?
Probably the money Carnera made in European fights stayed out of the hands of the most unscrupulous managers who handled his affairs in America, and from that he build his nice Villa in his hometown.
Duffy was only his co-manager after 1933. I came across a photo on the internet of Carnera seated and signing something with Soresi and Duffy standing behind him. This was the caption: "Above is Primo Carnera when he was a much managed challenger of Jack Sharkey. Behind the Venetian Leviathan is the pair who take 50 per cent of his earnings as managers--Broadway Bill Duffy, left, now in jail, and Louis Soresi, at whom Primo is peeved." There is really no question about Soresi's role as Carnera's manager from 1933 on. He is mentioned in many sources. Here's one of the more interesting from the New York Times of 3/26/1935 concerning the New York State Athletic Commission: "At the time the Commission eliminated Primo Carnera from the heavyweight title picture when the former champion's manager, Louis Soresi, told the commissioners he was not willing to send Carnera through another elimination bout with Braddock unless the management of Madison Square Garden would post a guarantee of $550,000 that the winner of the bout would be matched with Baer for the title. Since the Garden had declined to post the guarantee, Carnera had signed to meet Joe Louis under the auspices of the Twentieth Century Sporting Club and the commission took the stand that the big Italian had elminated himself." Know anything about that jail time for Duffy in the 1930's? I can't find much info on Duffy. My take is that as a run of the mill gangster poor Duffy was probably out of his crookedness league when dealing with an international financier like Soresi. And it is odd that so much writing about Carnera ignores Soresi.
Possible. Soresi just testified he bought villas for Carnera in Italy. Where the money came from? Who knows.
This article gives Soresi some attention, and implies he was fleecing Carnera too : [url]https://slamwrestling.net/index.php/2006/10/26/the-strange-case-of-carnera/[/url]
I found information on Villa Carnera on an Italian website: "Carnera publicly manifested for the first time on 24 October 1930, after his landing in Genoa, from the 'Conte Grande', the desire to have a beautiful house built right in the village, in Sequals." "Villa Carnera was built in 1932 on a project by twenty-four year old Mariano Pittana under the supervision of Luigi Plateo, a technician of the past proposed to Primo by the accountant Ruggero Grandis." about the design "Carnera demonstrates great intelligence in the choice of modernity he makes, in an avante-garde villa project, different from the environments in which he lived. Pittana, for his part, demonstrates the same acumen." A description of the house mentions "the servants' quarters" "The villa remained the property of the Carnera family until 12 December 1972." It seems Carnera had enough money to build this imposing home as early as 1932. I am surprised it was built that early. Note that Carnera is directed to an architect by an accountant. I don't know what the truth is, but this doesn't sound like a simpleton. It is also implied that he had imput in the design.
Primo Carnera was no simpleton but he was probably naive about the cut-throat business practices of American boxing promoters, managers and racketeers. Ingemar Johansson was a shrewd businessman but had a load of trouble in the American boxing world. Different rules.
But if the Italian source is correct, he was a respectable banker. (Which means no more crooked than other bankers) An Italian source comments that "after the war, Carnera is no longer as rich as he used to be." This backs up Carnera saying he was set for life if it wasn't for the war. But there is counter evidence. Like Carnera fighting twice in 1937. Why? Did he need cash? I don't know what is right or wrong here, but the truth seems complex. Was Carnera merely a carcass being picked clean by vultures? Was he the simpleton generally portrayed? Or was he a bit more shrewd, or deceptive, than folks took him to be? This article does mention that Duffy went to jail for income tax evasion. I had read but forgotten that.
I have no idea what a respectable banker is. Nevemind what a respectable banker is in (Fascist era) Italy.
