Well I had a chance to sit down and score this match and I was thoroughly entertained throughout. Many rounds were difficult to score but I did my best to come to a fair scorecard. It was not easy. I just want to say that however it was scored, Winky Wright really deserves credit for his performance in this match. He boxed brilliantly and sharpshooted Vargas from the outside with jabs and straight lefts while coming foward and backing Vargas up. Here is my scorecard including notes - Vargas - Wright Round 1 : 10-9 Round 2 : 9-10 Round 3 : 10-9 Round 4 : 10-9 Round 5 : 9-10 Round 6 : 9-10 Round 7 : 10*-10 Round 8 : 9**-10 Round 9 : 9-10 Round10: 10-9 Round11: 10-10 Round12: 10-9 Total : 115-115 Draw Round 1- At first I scored the opening round 10-9 to Wright, but then I went back and rewatched it paying more attention to the punches Vargas landed, and I ended up changing my score to 10-9 for Vargas. This is definitely a hard round to score as Wright landed some great shots upstairs and a great clean right hand late in the round, but Vargas was connecting consistently to the body and I felt upon rewatch that Vargas did just enough to nick this round. Very very close hard to score round though. Round 3 - I disagreed with Lederman in his scoring of the 3rd round. He gave the 3rd round to Winky Wright whereas I scored it for Vargas. 2 of the judges agreed with me in this round scoring it for Vargas but one judge agreed with Harold and scored it for Winky. *Round 7 - I had a hard time deciding whether to score this 10-9 to Wright or even, as I thought Wright probably did enough to win the round but I was impressed with some of Vargas's body shots. Lampley indicated the Compubox numbers favored Vargas this round but I suspect that was a case of Vargas getting maybe a little too much credit for some punches hitting the gloves. But again, even though Wright landed the cleaner punches upstairs, I felt that Vargas also deserved credit for landing some great body shots so I scored it 10-10. **Round 8 - I came close to scoring this one even as well as Vargas had a good body shot and a good 3/4 punch combo towards the end of the round but overall there were just too many clean jabs and lead rights by Winky and Winky controlled the round early on so I decided to score it 10-9 Wright though it was very close. Round 9 - Winky Wright knocks Vargas's mouthpiece out with a left hand while Vargas was dipping down and leaning over towards the end of the round. Still a close round up until that point but I felt Wright just outworked him and landed more quality punches, although Vargas did land some good shots early in the round. In corner after round 9, Wright's trainer says "you're winning this fight BIG". Round 10 - Vargas has some success in the first half of the round, it seems that his only chance to land clean shots upstairs is to throw when Wright is throwing as well. And he did this at about the 1:30 point in the middle of the round getting a couple of nice shots in while Wright was punching himself. Because when Wright is in his high guard it seems like he blocks pretty much everything which is why Vargas has spent much of the night spamming body shots. And the problem there is that Wright is in such good shape even though Vargas has landed some brutal body shots throughout the match they don't see to be effecting Wright all that much because Wright is in such good shape in the body. What a round this 10th round was. Wright looked to be on his way to winning this round but an unbelievable final minute by Vargas a relentless assault to the body and the head definitely won this round for Vargas with that surge in the final minute. Amazing. Round 11 - I have no fking clue who won this round. Both landed some great shots. Scored it even. Big G in the corner after the 11th through a translator "we need this round and we need it to be a clear round with the combinations" suggesting that the last round (round 11) may not have been clear enough for him, so after hearing that from Big G, I feel a little better about scoring this round even lol. Compubox #s in the 11th - Vargas 22/53 Wright 16/54, nevertheless Lederman gave this round to Wright 10-9, and Lederman has Wright up by 3 points heading into the 12. At the beginning of the 12th round, Lederman said the big rounds for Winky were 6,7,8,and 9 where he (Winky) clearly out punched Vargas in these rounds, which I tend to agree with as I scored 3 of those rounds for Wright (6,8 and 9) and the 7th even though the 8th was very close as well. Since none of those rounds I scored for Vargas, I sort of agree with Lederman on this point. Round 12 - Great first minute by Vargas, setting the pace, throwing combos as Big G told him to do, some of them landed, though several also hit gloves with Winky in the high guard. Unbelievable jab from Winky with 1:55 on the clock with Vargas on the ropes, good lord. Vargas hits the canvas from an apparent slip while throwing a 3 punch combinations from an apparent wet spot on the canvas, man he looked like he was falling down a spiral staircase there. He landed some great shots before he slipped, one right hand appeared to get through the guard and land pretty hard another looked like it got around the guard. Vargas is maintaining a high work rate this round not all are getting in but he's really loading up and not taking many breaks in between punches just trying to outwork Wright like he did last round. Winky is clearly the more efficient and accurate boxer this round but Vargas is applying unrelenting pressure and it's really hard to score a round against Vargas when he's working this hard. 0:52 on the clock, beautiful 3 punch combo by Wright, the first and third punches, both right hands landed flush and hard. Man what a war. 0:30 too good right hands by Vargas on the inside. Endless combos from Vargas, most are blocked but he got in a hard body shot to the belt-line area with 0:15 left. Damn Winky felt that one. 0:07 Winky backs away and puts both arms up like he has the fight won lol. Winky landed the cleaner shots in the 12th round but Vargas won this round or me, just had an unrelenting work rate and did land some great shots even though many were blocked. What a round, what a fight!
Harold Lederman has it 115-113 and claims Wright just outworked him. I don't think Wright outworked him in the last 3 rounds but over the first 9 rounds I think you can say he did lol. Larry Merchant's scorecard was a draw. After the fight Vargas said to Larry Merchant that he had a personal problem that distracted him in camp that said he made him feel a little slower than usual. But he wouldn't care to elaborate on what the problem was. Anyone know what this personal problem he was referring to? Vargas made it clear that this problem was separate to the legal problems he had, which stemmed from an assault. Something tells me the personal problem he was referring to was related to that, but then again maybe it wasn't. Who knows. Winky Wright said he decided to come forward and trade with Vargas because he said that he didn't think he would get a decision if he boxed and moved because they'd say he was running. Well he didn't run, until the very end of the 12th round that is when he put his hands up thinking he had the ifght won. Merchant described witnessing a car crash driving to the fight from Portland where he saw his life flash before his eyes, and he likened what happened in the ring to a human car crash and called this match "a special event to see". It was incredible to watch. I was amazed by the pace that was set in the early rounds. Both fighters were loading up and just trading bombs early on. But Wright was the far more technical fighter, and really fought a very scientific fight early on. I definitely preferred the clean punching from Wright througout the contest but I also admired how Vargas dug down deep at times and really tried to pull out rounds when he needed them just from sheer unmitigated workrate and digging into the body. This really was Prime Winky Wright and what really made Winky Wright special is that his high guard covers so much area it is very hard to get punches through when he's blocking. So Vargas had no choice but to target the body, or try to throw punches while Wright was throwing punches while the guard wasn't up. Occasionally Vargas would land a clean punch upstairs but a lot of his shots were hitting gloves. Winky also occasionaly dug in some hard body shots himself a couple to the kidney area I remember were really hard, but Winky was content mostly to headhunt while walking Vargas down. I throughout enjoyed this match and I had a very difficult time scoring it. Both fighters really left it all in the ring and both fighters deserve credit for putting on such an epic match. I suspect that the consensus was that Winky did enough to win, and some claim he was robbed. But how did you see the fight. Did anything think that Vargas deserved to win with how strong he finished in the later rounds and all the body punching? He was up and coming prospect and the commentators made it seem like this was a much tougher fight than many expected it to be for Vargas. What do you think would have happened if Winky would have boxed more and tried to make Vargas miss? Do you think it have made a difference in the scoring? A part of me feels like I should have scored this for Winky Wright, as he landed the cleaner shots, was more accurate, was more of a technician in there. But even though Vargas was sloppier at times, I just really was impressed at how committed he was to body punching. You just don't see this kind of committment to body punching very often. And Vargas worked so damn hard in those late rounds he just keep punching punching punching he wouldn't stop with the combos. But he wasn't landing clean, or was he. Sometimes he was. You look at the compubox numbers the power punches were huge in favor of Vargas but as Lampley pointed out, those numbers were very even until the last 3 rounds. And really the big surprise was how much success Wright had in terms of power punching before those last 3 rounds. I am torn in so many directions when it comes to how this match should be scored. The sweet science part of me wants wants to score it for Wright, I really admired how he fought, intelligently while also coming forward and backing Vargas up which was unexpected, and had I given Wright either the 1st (as I did initially before I rewatched and changed it to Vargas) or like the 3rd round Wright would have won. And then I had 2 even rounds where I just was conflicted as to who won it. But i feel that my score of 115-115 is pretty fair given how close it was, but I wouldn't argue with anyone scoring it for Vargas or for Wright either. But wait a minute, who really won?? LOL. This fight was too good to end up with a draw and saying either guy could have won. Can someone tell me who REALLY won this FIGHT? Or would a draw be fair in a fight this close and controversial? I guess fairer maybe to have it a draw than give Vargas the win when most people seemed to think Wright did enough to win. I don't know but all I know is this was a helluva fight and both men deserve a ton of credit for setting that kind of pace early on and never taking their foot off the gas.
I remember scoring it to Winky by 2-3 points last time I watched it. It was close enough that I wouldn't have objected to a draw, but a Vargas win outright had a slight whiff of luck about it in my opinion. Not in the robbery category but definitely in the dubious or debatable ones, for me. Might take another look, see if my opinion has changed and come back with a fresh round by round for this if I have the chance in the next day or two.
I just viewed this fight and loaded it to the scorecard thread after seeing this thread. Also needed to reply here also. This is my score and what I wrote (for what it's worth): Fernando Vargas v Winky Wright Round 1: 10-9 Vargas Round 2: 10-9 Vargas Round 3: 10-10 Even Round 4: 10-9 Vargas Round 5: 10-9 Wright Round 6: 10-9 Wright Round 7: 10-9 Vargas Round 8: 10-10 Even Round 9: 10-9 Wright Round 10: 10-9 Vargas Round 11: 10-9 Wright Round 12: 10-9 Vargas Total: 116-114 Vargas (actual scores: 115-113, 116-112 both for Vargas and a 114-114 Even, for a majority win for Vargas) Wow, so close. If I scored this again, I know my score would be different. I think a draw would have been the correct score here. One has to stay super-focused on this fight when scoring. I wanted to just sit back and enjoy it after a couple of rounds of scrutinizing, but then just kept to the task. There's no bad score here as long as its close.
I'm a man of my word, so here I am. Having scored it to Wright by a couple of points or so last time, this is what I had watching it again now. R1: Wright R2: Wright R3: Vargas R4: Vargas R5: Wright R6: Wright R7: Vargas R8: Wright R9: Vargas R10: Vargas R11: Wright R12: Vargas So 114-114 this time around. There were some close rounds, with 9 probably being the closest for me. I gave that to Vargas on this viewing which is key. So despite a different score this time, I'd say my overall impression of the fight hasn't really changed. I don't think you can really make an argument that Vargas won this fight outright, but you could probably argue that he didn't lose it either. If anyone deserved the win I still feel like it was Wright, but I could live with a draw. To that end Winky was definitely unlucky to end up with an 'L' on his record. Just a few general thoughts... Agree with those above who have commented that Winky made a bad tactical error in giving away the 12th - but I think he also cruised too much in the 11th. Round 10 just before that was the only round in the fight were Vargas was consistently on the front foot, being the aggressor and backing Wright up. I think for Vargas, knowing his title was in the balance, that 10th round was his final salvo, to try and break Wright's will. When it didn't work I think he looked very flat in the 11th, probably a bit disheartened and mindful himself that he needed to conserve some energy for the final round. Wright on the other hand still looked fresh in 11 and really should have pressed back the advantage. I still gave him the round, as did two of the judges - but sweeping that round on the cards along with the twelfth, which I feel he could / should have done, would have made all the difference. I also think Vargas - probably realising quite quickly that this was going to be unlike any other fight he'd had thus far - fought quite tight and tensely at times, often struggling to really flow, which could have drained him a bit and might explain why he had a couple of lulls and had to be more selective with his activity, combinations etc. Wright on the other hand looked much looser and fresher throughout, which make his loss of the twelfth round all the worse. He wasn't tired - he just cruised when he shouldn't have done. Anyway, excellent fight which proved that both men were a lot more layered than people had them pigeonholed as before. For a long time it was the complete reversal of what people expected - the boxer making it an inside brawl and imposing his will, and the brawler having to try and adapt and do it while being backed up.
@88Chris05 Interesting card. I agree that Vargas did well in the 7th, I had that even due to his body punching. I agree with you about the 11th, it was a very hard round for me to score. That was definitely a less clear round for Vargas than round 10 or round 12, so giving that to Wright makes sense. The only rounds we really disagree on is the 1st and the 9th. But really both of those rounds I was conflicted over, so I can't say I really disagree all that much. You said the 9th was probably the hardest round for you to score and I mentioned how conflicted I was over the 1st round. And initially I did score the 1st round to Wright as you did, only to go back and re-watch it and change my mind on that one. As far as Round 9, if you look in my comments I did note that Vargas landed some good shots early in Round 9, and that was definitely a close round as well. Maybe I was a little swayed by when Wright knocked Vargas mouthpiece out towards the end of the round. But you weren't phased by that, you still gave it to Vargas. It was very, very close, no doubt about it. I don't know how close you thought Round 1 was, or if you thought it was an easy round to score. But I bet if you watch it again you might change your mind, and I might watch Round 9 again and give it to Vargas. That's how close this was. Really most of these rounds were pretty damn even and deciding who won some of these rounds might depend on which way the wind is blowing lol. This was not an easy match to score, arguably about half of the rounds were swing rounds that could go either way. It's splitting hairs in many rounds. And what makes some of these rounds so hard to score is that both guys maintained a good poker face throughout and both guys were having success at different things. Vargas with the body punching, and in the later rounds with such a high workrate. While Wright showcasing the ring generalship, good blocking, clean, crisp, punching and coming forward and being the aggressor more than you expected he would. So you had very different reasons to give Vargas rounds vs Wright rounds. Both were having success at what they were trying to do, and neither was really ever phased by what the other fighter was landing on them. Both were in great shape, have great skillsets and just round after round did what they set out to do, each in their own way. In many rounds it's a difficult task to decide who deserves more credit than the other. A match like this reminds us how truly subjective judging is. And in a match this close and hard to score, you might be upset by a judge having either fighter winning by more than a round or two. But you could have it to either guy by several rounds, because again there's plenty of reasons to give many of these swing rounds to either fighter. And I agree with your general sense that Wright probably unlucky to end up with an L after that incredible performance. But if you look at how hard Vargas worked in those late rounds, and just how committed to body punching he was. Even though Wright didn't seem too effected by those body shots, many of them landed and landed hard. So I think we can say that Wright certainly was the more poised and better prepared of the two. And he was much more experienced so that makes sense, and the idea that Vargas was distracted by out of the ring drama certainly would make sense too. So yes I feel like Wright probably deserved the win more, he certainly earned better than an L after that performance, but at the same time you could argue that Vargas wanted it more especially down the stretch. We've seen fights where you feel that one guy is behind on the cards heading into the late rounds, and he knows he has to dig down deep and just outwork the other guy in the later rounds or he will lose, I think that's what we saw from Vargas down the stretch. But again, even despite the late rally by Vargas, Wright never lost his composure. All I know is that both guys came to fight and those fans in attendance were treated to a gem of a match. And looking back at this match now, it really brings you back to a classic night of boxing, in a much different time and how fun it was to watch HBO boxing in those days.
