Hashim Rahman Vs Frank Bruno??

Gerrie Coetzee was still top ten when Bruno beat him.
Oliver McCall was in the top 3.

Where exactly do you place Maskaev in the top 10 going into those Rahman fights ? Was he even top 10 ?

 

I'm not saying you should bet on him but he's no worse than the guys we are discussing.

 

As @Unforgiven said above, it's likely a close fight.
Rahman certainly wasn't a bad fighter, and he fought well against Lewis in SA. He fought back when tagged, and found that right hand. Give him credit for that. He also fought well against Tua, before getting knocked out. 8/10 he wins that fight. He for my money also beat Tua in the rematch.
The same for Bruno though. He fought a good, controlled fight against Lewis and that jab gave Lewis lots to think about. Ditto Witherspoon. Ditto Smith. He came unstuck in all of these granted, but he fought well and with more experience would certainly have beaten Smith.
The losses to Tyson are no disgrace.

I initially voted for Rahman, but some posts in this thread changed my mind.

 

And that is Bruno's resume in a nutshell.

I have to admit that his resume looks a bit lackluster without Ramhan.

 

I can't understand people saying that they are "certain" that Bruno would beat this contender or that contender.

He admits in his own autobiography, that he came within and ace to losing to Floyd Cummings, who was on a losing streak at the time.

This is a very, very beatable man.

If he had fought more dangerous contenders, he would almost certainly have picked up more losses.

 

The above^^ places you and your lack of objectivity into perspective.

There is absolutely no point debating with someone, who can commit to this kind of nonsense.

 

Will you please not respond to my points with bluster and rudeness.

I assumed that it was generally accepted the Lewis improved after the Bruno fight, and was probably at his best when he held the lineal title, or just before.

 

Nothing in my previous post was bluster. Neither was it rude. It was a matter of fact observation.

Your comment on the respective versions of Lewis, faced by Bruno and Rahman respectively, demonstrates a stark lack of objectivity on your part. It is blatantly ignoring well-documented evidence to the contrary that has been discussed ad infinitum on these boards, which I would find hard to believe you are not aware of.

The above is another case in point. This^ is an obviously cherry-picked part of the Lewis story, which suits the subjective statement you wish to make, without considering the whole story and the details therein. That is the very definition of a lack of objectivity.

Yes - Lewis is considered to have improved over time. However, it is also very well-known that Lewis was in the worst shape of his career for Rahman I (save maybe for his last fight, against Vitali); that he had elected not to prepare properly for a fight at an altitude of over 5000ft. It is also very well-known that Lewis was 35 years old by then (he would turn 36 by the time of the rematch later that year), which would not have helped him overcome his lack of training for the contest or the effects of fighting at altitude.

By contrast, Lewis was reaching his athletic peak in '93 and, despite his rawness, he had tremendous physical attributes and natural talent. Manny Steward polished an already-existent gem. He didn't create the gemstone itself.

Lewis had not long leveled Ruddock with ease and beaten Tucker wide, to serve up only his second defeat. The distinction between the danger Lewis posed for Bruno and that, which he didn't pose against Rahman is night and day. Rahman got his taste of a prepared Lewis, who was focused and capable of delivering his armory, in the rematch - and look what happened. Rahman was never in it.

But in Johannesburg Lewis had succumbed to his own complacency and overconfidence and, through his lack of conditioning, ultimately gave Rahman the space, the time and the opening to deliver that once-in-a-lifetime shot.

But - you know all what I have just described above, already.

There is no way on God's green Earth that Rahman beat a better version of Lewis than Bruno fought and I stand by my earlier comments, regarding your assertion otherwise.

 

I've got Lewis from SA ahead of the one Bruno fought. He was lineal, on pfp lists, and years in with Steward. Being three pounds heavy wasn't that big of a deal. Rahman's physical strength had something to do with Lewis's performance.

Moreover, Bruno wouldve been stopped by that Lewis.

 

What has any of what you just typed got to do with Lewis' conditioning for Rahman I?

Sure - Lewis' poor preparation, late arrival in South Africa and the high altitude was no big deal either.

Keep on trollin'

 

Did you know Rahman also had to deal with the altitude? Is Rahman from Machu Pichu or Tibet?

Did you know Rahman was stronger in the clinch than anyone Lewis fought? He was benching 500 pounds. For the layperson, being strong in the clinch tires out the opponent.

Did you know that Lewis got knocked out cold from a well placed punch in only the 5th round? Did you know that is not the same as losing fight on conditioning?

Rahman rolled into a foreign country confidently and took home the title by executing a calm, measured gameplan.

Try to picture Bruno showing up in those conditions and not being a nervous wreck. He would instantly gas at that altitude while being under that kind of pressure.

 

Rahman had been in Jo'burg for nearly 3 weeks and had trained diligently. Fair play to the man. Lewis arrived 6 days before the fight, having just finished filming Ocean's 11.
I remember watching Lennox's ring walk and saying to my mates, "Christ ! He thinks he's walking into his favourite restaurant".
Lewis was in such poor shape that he was blowing hard in the 4th. Good on Rahman, he lived and trained like a professional whereas Lennox tried to fight in holiday mode.

 

Google says that kind of altitude can be adapted to in 1-3 days. Lewis trained in Vegas, which about 35% of the altitude in Johannesburg. I have never seen altitude mentioned when fighters train at sea level and go to Vegas or Reno, which is even higher up.

I watched the fight tonight. They both were breathing hard, but it was nothing crazy from either. It's not why Lewis got stupid and why Rahman caught him. It was only round 5.

 

I don't think I've ever voted for Bruno in one of these match up's. Maybe once when he was put up against Ernie Terrell or Gerry Cooney. I'm just so familiar with Frank. I was 14 when he turned pro and by the time I was 16, it was obvious to me that he was never going to be an elite Heavyweight.
That said, Frank was always good at mowing down guys who were just short of top level. Pierre Coetzer, James Tillis and Jesse Fergusson were all decent Fighters who Frank comprehensively hammered.
At the time Rahman beat the woefully out of shape Lewis, he was really just the next cab off the rank, a Renaldo Snipes or Lou Savrese type. Credit to him, Rahman took his chance against the man claiming to be Lennox that night.
Bruno was always in phenomenal shape, had solid fundamentals and with the exception of the Tyson fights, always started fights well.
I can see Frank winning inside 4 here.

 

Did you know Rahman arrived in good time to prepare properly for the altitude?

Yeah Rahman's 'magic clinching' had all of his opponents winded by round-2, didn't it? That clinching sure served Rahman well in all of his other fights... ...even against greats like Maskaev...

Oh... ...wait...

You know that boxers with poor conditioning, combined with a lack of preparation for a bout at altitude, will become fatigued more quickly, reducing their workrate and mobility; slowing their reaction times, as well as affecting their decision-making, due to increased physical stress, don't you?

Or, maybe you don't.

Since it seems you were a Rahman Camp Insider, you can let us in on the game plan then.

While your at it, you can tell us what Rahman's game plan was in the rematch, as well? Do you know why it didn't work?

How about picturing a properly prepared Bruno (like Rahman was), who would have benefited from the slow pace that Lewis was setting?

Ultimately, Rahman got lucky in the wake of Lewis' complacency and overconfidence. If Rahman could benefit from that, then so could Bruno.