Young even admitted he was out on his feet against Foreman in 77. No doubt a 73 Foreman puts his foot on the gas and stops him.
I think George beat Young in 77, but the crowd and Howard Cosell were so against George that every little thing Young did --which wasn't much-- was magnified. Watch it again.
This. Foreman was tailormade for Young. Young showed up out of shape and still beat the tar out of Foreman. Lyle couldn’t do anything with Young either.
It’s almost like people are arguing there are four George Foremans: 1) Pre-Ali monster 2) Zaire George who went from being a monster to being tamed 3) Post-Zaire Foreman, now a shell of himself beset by crippling self-doubt 4) Fast-forward to old George, who now has all the wisdom he didn’t have in his youth but only part of the physical skills I accept 1 and 4. Not sure there’s a real difference between 1 and 2 or 1 and 3. The Foreman who went to war with Lyle is the same monster he was before, and that’s the same guy who lost to Ali and Young IMO.
Yes, Foreman won. All Young basically did was clinch and fight an almost completely defensive "survival" fight. Ali, on the contrary, may have clinched, but still peppered George with good shots throughout their fight, culminating in a knockout of a beaten and tired Foreman. With Young, Foreman just exhausted himself but still should have gotten the nod. To those who favor Young, the fight should have been called no better than a draw; though, I still favor Foreman. 1973 Foreman would have probably stopped Young in three but risks the same scenario as the '77 version if he doesn't get the job done early.
There's no difference between 1 and 2, they are one and the same. Ali was simply too good. So i'll go 3. 1) The undefeated confident monster pre Ali and during Ali who was not good enough to beat Ali but was good enough to decimate many others. 2) The version post Ali until first retirement who had lost his aura of invincibility per both himself and his opponents. The guy who was trying to change his style to a less aggressive and more refined energy conserving one with an aim to having a supposedly better chance against Ali in the rematch he was both clamoring for and earning. One for me, and many others, who lost a lot of effectiveness despite his best efforts and what on paper seemed to be a good direction. I wouldn't go near as far as "crippingly self doubt" but he'd lost a certain edge to me on various levels. 3) Second career George who had not fought for a decade, was 38 pounds over his prior fighting weight and was as old as the hills. A guy who did conserve energy well, learned a few new tricks and made the most of what he had left albeit with a ceiling over his head. I've come to my conclusions after decades of reading articles, watching fights, watching interviews and thinking quite a bit about it. Some agree and some disagree and i could well be totally wrong, absolutely, but i'm reasonably happy with where i sit at this point. We will never know for sure of course which is a part of our fun.
Nonsense, everybody's opinions are important and very much valid. I do agree that George Foreman was afraid like you mentioned of gassing out in 1977, against Jimmy Young, like he did against Muhammad Ali in 1974
The thing that prime George Foreman did not have in 1973 was stamina. He had a great corner, Archie Moore and D. Sadler, but your cornerman advise and instruct, they are not in the ring with you as the other guy is striking you with blows, he does not feel them. Sometimes you have to rely on your experience to make the proper adjustments. Jimmy Young did not like to get hit, he made his opponents miss, counter them and make his adversaries use every bit of their energy and stamina, unless you were an Earnie Shavers. George was used to fighting fighters who were tailor made for him, who came right at him, guys he could use his superior strength on, Joe Frazier on Jan 22 1973, and Joe King Roman in Sept 1973, later Ken Norton on March 26 1974. Young was also very awkward, frustrating his opponent, and yes Jimmy used his version of Rope A Dope in round 8 when he was staggered. And as another talented poster pointed out, George was afraid to be gassed as he was against Ali in 1974.Foreman in the second stage of his career was much wiser and had worked on building up his stamina. Jimmy Young won me $ 20.00 on the night of March 17 1977, beating powerful George Foreman, he deserved the verdict, he knocked down George in round 12 to seal the victory. What counts in boxing is the judgement of the designated boxing officials, that is above my pay grade. I do not debate, I am not a politician but an avid boxing fan. Jimmy Young takes this one again, same result.
