Certainly a lock for the Hall Of Fame, no doubt about that. I think he is up for ATG discussion, as we have here. I think he gets in, though I don't think he's a lock. But he beat Nunn, the best middleweight of that era, beat McCallum, one of the best fighters of that era, and depending how much value you attach to the win, did best Holyfield, though by then Holy was well past it. (But of course Toney was never a natural heavyweight, so it must count for something.) Also beating Williams, Barkley and Jirov, all very capable fighters... The loss to Jones isn't hurting him that much, considering what Jones went on to do himself.
I would put him in the HOF. But I understand the naysayers. Toney didn't always seem motivated and had some fights that made you wonder where his head was at. On overall accomplishments, he makes HOF in my book.
I think he's borderline in terms of being a genuine all-time great. I'd be inclined to give him the nod for that category, personally - but I am a big Toney fan, so have to be mindful that I could be a little biased in that regard. He certainly has a couple of wins and career high points which are better or more impressive than a lot of other guys who we usually place as ATGs without much hesitation. The problem is, he also tends to have a couple more disappointing and ignoble low points than those guys, too. His career really took a nosedive (and a long one, at that) after the Jones loss and he became a bit of a peripheral figure during what should have still been his prime years for the most part. Yeah yeah, I know as well as anyone - the decisions were debatable and Toney was struggling with weight. But the weight issue was nobody's fault but his own, so it's hard to feel too much sympathy, and a genuine ATG shouldn't really be letting guys like Griffin x 2 and Thadzi get all that close in the first place, at least not on all three occasions. Had he retired in 2002 / 2003 or just carried on that same path to obscurity then I suspect the overwhelming consensus would be that he fell short of true greatness, so I guess the key deciding factor is how you rate his achievements in the four or five years after that, starting with the win against Jirov which really brought him back from the dead. If you strip away all the ifs, buts and maybes and look purely at the bottom line and brass tacks, he didn't really achieve ALL that much as a Heavyweight after winning his Cruiserweight title. But the context is obviously important - even if he was juicing, it's pretty fanciful to say that that was a more decisive factor in temporarily taking that WBA belt off Ruiz than Toney's own quality was, and I think he got totally jobbed in the first Peter fight, too. On paper his Heavyweight record is quite average, and it was a terrible era for the big guys, but under the circumstances I think it's actually a pretty good indicator of how talented he was that he could turn up looking morbidly obese and pushing forty, and still give them all they could handle for the most part. Can't imagine many other former Middles being able to do that. Certainly a great talent, and at times between 1991 and 1994 especially he was doing great things, too. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I wouldn't object too strongly to anyone arguing that he fell slightly short, either.
No, he was not an all time great, all time great don't lose decisions to Sam Peter, yes he gets in the HOF, as his trashing talking made him popular with the media..
In 1991 James Toney won the IBF Middleweight Title against Micheal Nunn. In 1993 James Toney won the IBF Super Middleweight Title against Iran Barkley in a virtuoso performance I should add. In 2003 James Toney won the IBF Cruiserweight Title against Vassily Jirov. He's won titles in 3 weight classes he was competitive in every single division he's ever fought in. He has some good names on his resume. His career didn't pan out the way one would have thought given his skills but he's most certainly an ATG. I should add that only a technicality denied him of the claim of being the heavyweight champion of the world.
If you're judging a former This content is protected Champion who went up in weight and lost to what was then a Top This content is protected Contender then I'm awfully skeptical about whether you know enough about his career to make an informed judgement.
Definitely, just look how many fights he's had. Toney is a throwback fighter, plus I love his trash talk.
Lol, I am so confused. Why do people call Toney a borderline Hall of Famer but call GGG an all-time great? The only Hall of Famer GGG had a claim of beating was Canelo and was never lineal in his weight class. Toney beat the number one fighters in multiple divisions (spanning from middleweight to heavyweight) like Nunn, Barkley, Jirov, and an old but still game Holyfield. As much as I love GGG, he's pretty overrated.
He beat the #1 MW and Cruiser. He never beat the #1 at Super Middle, Light Heavy, and Heavy. If he had, people would rate him higher and not just correctly assume him to be a weight class jumping opportunist.
You guys need to really take some things into consideration. James Toney is most definitley an ATG. Keep in mind that most of his losses were at heavy weight. Toney started as a middle weight and had titles at 160,168, and 190 and beat some very good Heavy's. Did he have some hit and misses......of course. Who doesn't in a 90 FIGHT CAREER! He was a 5'10 middle. He is one of the most talented fighters in the last 100 Years without a doubt. He reminds me of the old time guys like, Langford, Joe Walcott(the welter), Henry Armstrong and even the modern day Pacman for what he was able to do. Name me one middle weight of the last 70+ years who was able to achieve what the ATG James Toney was able to do. Some of you get too caught up in his appearance at heavy and his "lack of discipline" on the scales. I hear people talking about who he lost to, remember 6 of his losses were at Heavy weight. The other 4 below that were against Roy, two very close losses to Montell Griffin and Drake Thadzi............Thats it! In a 90 fight career. Dempsey lost against fire man flynn, Pacman lost to Jeff Horn, Tyson lost to Buster, Vernon Forrest lost 2x to Mayorga. The list goes on. Just listen to what the Great boxing minds and trainers have said about James
