Would Mike Tyson Be Simply Too Small, To Be Successful Now?

@Unforgiven
Agreed on both points.

I can't think of a night where Lewis looked more spectacular than the night he annihilated Ruddock.
Some may say the Golota fight or the Rahman rematch, but the point remains that Lewis decimated the betting favourite, and the man as seen as the most dangerous guy in the division, while being a 'mere' 227 pounds. He rarely, if ever, looked better.
I don't want to second guess a great trainer like Manny Steward, but it's hard to say if Lewis' weight gain under Steward's guidance made him a better fighter.
He gained some things, but lost some things too, in my opinion.
He obviously gained experience, but that's besides the point.

Also agree that the term 'super heavyweight' is somewhat superfluous and misleading. Friggin' Sammy Scaff was a 'super heavyweight.' A crap one maybe, but physically he was one. Leroy Jones, James Broad... loads of guys were either knocking on that door or in the club.
If we go by the notion that a 'super heavyweight' needs to be of a certain height and weight.
So what does it even mean, anyway?

 

Yes, I think he lost a lot of agility and some speed when he went well into the 240s. I agree with you on the Ruddock fight, it is definitely one of Lewis's finest performances.

Manny Steward was a great trainer but I thought John Davenport did a great job with Lewis too. For some reason, Davenport was fired or left a few fights before the Ruddock fight but I give him credit for getting Lewis most of the way there, although Lewis had looked a bit stale and crude in some of the fights since the Gary Mason win.
I think they were quick to throw those trainers under the bus though, until Steward. I guess they all added something to Lewis's game, but I'm not 100% convinced Lewis was leaps and bounds better under Steward. Experience accounts for a lot. And Lewis was happy to be with Steward, and that means something.

Exactly.

Interestingly, I remember an inteview with Angelo Dundee in Manila 1975 where he's explaining that Ali isn't a heavyweight, he's a 224 pound "super heavyweight", so the concept has been around for a while.
If anything it possibly mostly originates as a psychological ploy or marketing label, "this guy is a new breed, a prototype" kind of thing.

 

I checked, Tony Tucker was 199 pounds according to boxrec, in his pro debut, against Chuck Gardner.
He was a couple of months shy of his 22nd birthday.
The whole fight used to be available on youtube, but I could only find this highlights today (timestamped) :

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He was a 216 pounder in 1986 against 242 pound James Broad :

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221 pounds against Tyson and he never looked better :

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John Davenport was an excellent trainer and certainly the man responsible for much of Lewis' early to mid successes.

I think what did John no favours was his anti-Brit stance, saying things like all the stupid people live in England, and stuff like that. Couldn't have gone down too well with Lewis' mostly British fanbase at the time, now with the Lewis camp in general.

 

Tony Tucker was actually a Light-Heavyweight as an amateur up until 1980.

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Tucker was about 21 years old. Young, but not a kid. Probably not a huge framed guy at all.
He did manage to carry the 221 pounds well, so certainly grew to be a proper heavyweight, but he wasn't a naturally huge heavyweight at all.

 

I think quite a few people would agree with your assessment of Lewis against Ruddock. He really was in his best physical shape during '91, through '93. Lithe, agile and explosive, with enough natural talent to utilize it, even if he did carry some flaws. This was the range of Lewis' physical peak.

Steward then built him up physically, made him bigger and much stronger, which took a lot of the vigor from his movement. But, in return, Steward also made him more technically able, bringing him up to his technical peak by the late '90s.

 

Hm... I never was big fan of these 245+ pounds slow and (in their prime) vulnerable heavyweights.Only their
asslickers are more pathetic.
For example to me vitali klitscho's case is the most funny.He was so scarry because (in his prime) couldn't ko the out of shape fat
Kevin Johnson. Kevin's full record is 54 fights 35 wins 18 losses and 1 draw including only 19 kos and this
means a nearly "brutal" 35% ko percentage. Hahaha !. Now klitschko couldn't ko this powerhouse !
Or vitali lost to a fat , featherfisted easy Ibeabuchi ko victim Chris Byrd. This Byrd who can't beat a shot to hell
Golota . (A shot Tyson destroyed Golota's health by 2 rounds otherwise.) Now this unprepared 210 lbs and FAT Byrd knocked out klitschko.( I don't know only one title fight
when Tyson was lighter than 215 lbs muscular,ripped fighter.)
Considering these just a biased Tyson hater can imagine a vitali win against a prime Tyson who was unbeaten,undisputed
youngest heavyweight champion with 10 (very easy) title fights win including several wins against World champions.

 

Not hard to imagine Vitali beating Tyson, great chin, physically stronger, better work rate and a massive size gap. Vitali's durability would pose big problems and Tyson would probably have trouble landing effectively due to the height difference. Vitali also showed good stamina and didn't fade in the later rounds like Tyson did.

 

When would you say Tyson faded in the later rounds at his best?

 

Vitali was tough, for sure, but just how durable would he have looked against elite class opposition?

We only saw him tested twice, by the two best opponents he fought (Old, Past-it Lewis and a re-emerging Byrd) - and he was beaten by both of them.

 

In 100 years, someone will post on this forum: “With modern training and nutrition, Mike Tyson would have been 6-foot-9 and 300 pounds.”

(And who knows, with medical advances they might be right.)

 

Prime Tyson beats any fighter in a fantasy matchup ever. Learn the rules punks.

 

Lol another one of these threads? Mike Tyson beat various 6'5/6'6 guys in his prime. Tyson himself weighed 215 to 220 which is more than Deontay Wilder usually weighs. But no Tyson couldn't be champion if he fought now. Neither could Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes, George Foreman, Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield ect. Because up until the last few years there were no 6'5 heavyweights. Every heavyweight up until the last few years were 4 feet tall at best.

 

He’d decimate them all.
The only one who would present a problem would be Fury.

 

I'm sure there were many fans telling everyone how that Dempsey kid had no chance against a man Jess Willard's size