Canelo vs Leonard

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Toney F*** U, Jun 11, 2021.



Who takes it?

  1. Canelo dec.

  2. Canelo ko/tko

  3. Leonard dec.

  4. Leonard ko/tko

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member Full Member

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    Floyd also drained the life out of him. But still, it was his movement and unwillingness to engage in a concrete manner that put the tombstone on that fight.
     
  2. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Khan wasn't dragged up 2 weight divisions. He moved up 1 division + 1 lb, a total of 8 lbs. Canelo moved up 3 times that many lbs to fight Kovalev from 154. The point isn't Khan's chin, the point is he has hurt and dropped multiple movers with fast hands and schooled another. Saunders was not ahead. Canelo has wrecked movers and non-movers. Canelo can beat anyone with any style. Floyd was feinted out of his mind and taken to his limit by drained pre-prime greenelo. And lets remember Mayweather didn't do much moving vs Canelo, he stood right in front of Canelo for much of that fight and out jabbed him with his longer reach.

    Canelo doesn't have bad knees, that's another myth. But sure you could say he might struggle slightly more with movers with fast hands than a non-mover with slow hands, but doesn't that apply to pretty much every fighter out there? GGG struggled with Jacobs and Canelo in the first fight, because of they were movers with fast hands. Who doesn't struggle more with movers and fast hands vs non-movers with slow hands? Everyone, no? Canelo though has a seek and destroy gear that he showed vs Khan. He's patient and he'll time you even if you move, chances are you'll eventually get caught. So I'm not necesarily disagreeing with you, I would just say Canelo is better vs movers with fast hands than most fighters. It's not a vulnerability.
     
  3. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    FYI Floyd didn't use much footwork or movement vs Canelo. Floyd stood there in the pocket most of the night out-jabbing him. The fact that you say it was Floyd's movement that was the difference shows you have no clue what happened in that match.
     
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  4. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member Full Member

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    Shadow sometimes has a hard time in seeing the difference between canelo and this guy. It's all the same to him:

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  5. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member Full Member

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    Body movement and footwork.
     
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  6. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Floyd did not fight Canelo like Lara did. Lara was a mover. Floyd stood in there with Canelo and traded with him the entire fight. Floyd won due to his longer reach, his lightning fast and more accurate jab, his extreme evasion manuevers with upper body movement to avoid punches. Floyd was not a mover that night. Floyd did have faster hands than Lara. Lara made the mistake of moving too much, that's why he lost. Floyd won by not being a mover, staying in the pocket and landing the cleaner punches. Lara couldn't land the cleaner punches because he was moving and running way too much.
     
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  7. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This is a very interesting set of clips. In the first clip, Canelo blocks a Mayweather jab, then counters Mayweather with a straight right hand, then Mayweather lands that great left hook. But the straight right hand from Canelo definitely landed clean on Mayweather, before the great Mayweather counter left hook, you can see it on the reverse angle 0:04 in the video.

    This is a good video because it shows the same sequences from multiple angles. At 0:08 in the video, it looked like Mayweather's stright right hand landed clean. But then you can see from the other angle at 0:10 in the video, that straight right hand by Mayweather was mostly blocked by Canelo.

    0:14 in the video, Canelo has Mayweather on the ropes. Look how low Mayweather dipped down there. Clearly below the waist. Canelo still landed the first punch on the shoulder before Mayweather dipped down. Then Mayweather grabs a hold of Canelo's left arm, and digs in a hard kidney shot. That's multiple fouls in a matter of moments there by Mayweather. How do people not see this?

    0:17 in the video. Canelo throws a left hook, once again Mayweather dipping below the waist to avoid the left hook. The follow up right hand hits Floyd on the arm as he dips back up.

    0:18 Great work here by Canelo. Jab to the body, which we can't see from the camera angle. 0:19 Great left hook by Canelo lands around Floyd's guard. Shows how accurate of a power puncher Canelo was in this match. 0:20 followed by a hard right hand to the body by Canelo, then another left hand to the body by Canelo. That's 4 punches in a row landed by Canelo, but I guarantee compubox didn't count these as landed. Mayweather is all off balanced here trying to land a desperate right hook to the back of Canelo.

    0:21 then Floyd tries to hold, Canelo frees his right arm and smacks Floyd across the face with a right hook. Floyd does counter though with a great right hook. But that's 5 punches landed by Canelo there to only 1 by Floyd in that sequence. People only notice the hook at the end of that by Floyd. But when you really study it, you see that Floyd is getting out landed on the inside.

    0:24 Left right by Canelo, landed on the arm then to the body. Then Floyd tries to counter with a right hand, totally whiffs right there, missing completely. This clip of highlights you shared BCS8 is showcasing some great work and defense by Canelo, and fouling and poor defense by Mayweather.

    0:26 Canelo smacks Floyd in the head a quick left hook across his face. You call this good defense from Floyd? He's getting hit while trying to pull back and avoid shots. But he can't get out of the way in time.

    But none of these highlights BCS show Floyd doing any real moving or using any footwork, so I'm not sure why you linked this video trying to argue that Floyd was using footwork. Floyd's just standing there in the pocket flat footed trying to dodge punches and getting tagged repeatedly in these clips. This video is a great example of the kind of success Canelo was having vs Floyd.

    0:34 The first jab by Canelo lands, then Floyd's upper body disappears again Floyd's head is below the waist again. Yet the follow up right hand by Canelo still grazes Floyd's back as he dips down low below the waist again. Then Canelo misses 2 punches with Floyd coming back up.

    0:43, One-two from Floyd, both BLOCKED by Canelo. Then Canelo counters with a huge left hook. Floyd is off balance, Canelo follows up with a straight right hand. Floyd blocks it with his arm lol. 0:44 Then Floyd tries to counter, misses WILDLY with a right hook.

    0:49 Floyd dips below the waist AGAIN LOL. Canelo landed that jab as Floyd was dipping down off the shoulder, but missed the follow up right hook.

    0:52 Canelo slipped that jab. Countered it with a left hook to the body. Hard to see if it landed clean but Mayweather felt it and backed up. 0:53 the follow up right hand by Canelo looks lile it bounces off Floyd's arm. That's a missed jab by Floyd, 2 punches landed by Canelo, one punch missed by Canelo in that sequence. That's Canelo out landing Floyd by 2 punches in total.

    0:55 Canelo starts backing up, Floyd is now walking Forward.

    0:56 Canelo lands that jab, Floyd tries to slip it, but couldn't avoid it in time. People watching this live pretend this is great defese by Floyd, in actuality he's getting hit repeatedly and people are just giving Floyd credit for unsuccessful evasion moves. Like because Floyd is moving so quickly trying to avoid punches he's makng it look in real-time like he's making Canelo miss, but most of these are still landing just not with full impact because Floyd's trying his best to pull back quickly and evade shots. And this highlight video really showcases this well.

    The last clip is a big one two by Floyd, but everything in that video before last clip was a showcase of Floyd fouling and failing at trying to avoid punches vs Canelo. And most importantly it doesn't show Mayweather using the kind of footwork or being a mover which you were talking about.
     
  8. Surrix

    Surrix Boxing Addict Full Member

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    After getting spanked by cherry picked by him uncle in Floyd kid looks that had increased natural beef meat and healthy natural juice consumption.
    This all improvement clenelo had since this fight.
     
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  9. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You know you look at my summary there of that 1 minute video, if you go through that video, play it at 0.25 speed on youtube and really look closely, you'll see what I'm saying about who was landing what. I challenge you to give it a go so you see what I'm seeing. Lots of great punches landed on Floyd by Canelo there in that clip. Lots of fouling by Floyd, dipping down below the waist, Floyd holding, kidney shotting, getting smacked across the face. Great stuff.
     
  10. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member Full Member

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    TLDR Executive summary of Shadow's analysis for all the folks that didn't read that: Canelo destroyed Mayweather.

    :lol:
     
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  11. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    But you like timestamps and talking about which punches landed. Look at all the times Mayweather dipped down below the waist in that video, and how many times he got hit while trying to evade shots. It's all right there in your video! What about the holding, the kidney shoting, Canelo freeing up his right arm when Floyd tried to hold and got off that big right hook. I mean I don't know what you were thinking, but I'm happy you did, I never saw that video before, good collection of clips, you linked me a video that shows Floyd not being a mover and showing some great work from Canelo. Well done.
     
  12. iii

    iii Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Most what your attempting to castigate BS with has since been adotped by your surrogate son...bending under the waist , kidney punches(BJS), holding to get shot in & one more thing ...using...surprised you brought up but most grateful you did...lolOh by the way this should have been against Hagler a real Ginger mang a test!!!
     
  13. anthoto1

    anthoto1 Active Member Full Member

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    Leonard > PBF >>>>> Canelo.

    Canelo doesn't even belong in the same discussion as these two.
     
  14. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Current Canelo would have to be favored vs any version of either Leonard or PBF. But that doesn't mean he's greater as an overall fighter. The absolute best versions of Floyd and SRL would beat some versions of Canelo. But no welterweight is beating the SMW P4P King. I would personally pick the Hatton version of Floyd to beat Canelo when he was younger at 154-lb. I would pick the Leonard from the Duran rematch to beat Canelo when he was at 154-lb. The Hagler version of Leonard would have a chance vs 2017/2018 Canelo but probably would get caught and hurt, but if he didn't he could win a decision. But SMW current Canelo, get real, this version of Canelo would destroy any version of Mayweather or Leonard. And that's not a knock on SRL or Floyd it's just that Canelo is now at his peak multiple weight classes above them when they were in their primes. As great as the best versions of SRL and Floyd were at welter, 3 weight classes are 3 weight classes. You can't overcome that vs a guy as dominant as Canelo is at SMW.
     
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  15. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You must admit, I made some great points there and pointed out some important things that some people didn't pay attention to. Floyd didn't do as good vs Canelo as people said he did. Like you know in that clip right, Floyd pullin back a lot and trying to evade shots, but many of those shots still landed even though Floyd was pulling back. He just couldn't get away in time but in real-time people think Floyd's avoiding everything Canelo throws. It's all just smoke and mirrors. Floyd was gettin hit a lot by Canelo, if you go through my timestamps it's hard to deny what I'm saying if you're honest. Great clip there shared by BCS8, really reveals a lot.