If Wilder actually beats or KOs Fury it will go down as the greatest HW redemption of all times

Fair point

However it's just as bad when the actual defences are so blatently poor imo

 

Wilder is a puncher so if he knocks Fury out it’s no great redemption as it’s HW division and most HW have a punchers chance….

It will only be true redemption if he somehow by miracle out boxes him and outclasses Fury for large portions of the fight then knocks him out

But we seen it all before Wilder being outclassed then pulling the trigger for a knock so that senorio for me would only be redemption in pride but not in boxing or legacy but it would so Wilder has still not enough progressed as far as he should be

 

Windmill is beyond redeeming. His excuses and accusations after being outclassed by Fury were shameful. The worst loser in championship history.

I fully expect Fury to give him another beat down and i hope he does.

 

Wilder will finally get his redemption in the 10th instalment of Fury vs Wilder when AJ decides to retire

 

As I pointed out in my above post Ortiz is skilled at a few things, but is quite one-dimensional when taken out of his comfort zone. And while a casual eye test might tell you otherwise, the facts are he simply hasn't fought a wide enough variety of top level opponents to definitively rank him above Whyte. It's easy to look good when fighting low level opposition that don't challenge you in any way, quite another to maintain that level of skill when fighting higher quality guys that fight back, hurt you, and generally give you a lot more to think about. The few times that happened to Ortiz he didn't look great; it happened against Scott who kept him on the outside, and it happened against Wilder who kept him on the outside and hurt him multiple times. Both times Ortiz had his moments, but he also had long stretches in those fights where he looked very uncomfortable, lunging and throwing off balance, slugging like a wild man, smothering his work and clearly getting frustrated with no Plan B to work from.

Whyte often looks unskilled and ragged, but he still grinds out the wins, and it's not necessarily due to any otherworldly physical gifts. He wins because he knows how to utilise his tools in multiple scenarios, particularly his spearing jab, which has come to be his primary weapon in all his recent fights. Skill isn't always pretty, but it can be fairly inferred from results, and in that regard Whyte is a hell of a lot more proven than Ortiz bowling over bums with no opposition. If Ortiz were to fight Whyte's opposition there's a) no guarantee he'd win them all, and b) certainly no guarantee he'd show the same level of dominance as he routinely does against the Daniel Martz's and Alexander Flores's of this world.

Regarding Ortiz's attempts to take on better competition this has been debunked numerous times. Joshua offered him a career high payday to replace Miller and he turned it down citing 'low-balling', and aside from Wilder (and I suppose Hammer) Ortiz has fought the worst possible competition a fighter of his level can get away with. Where are the Chisoras or Takams or Hunters in that list? Martin, Helenius, Wallin, are all these ducking Ortiz? Very unlikely. So Ortiz is choosing to fight bums and using 'low-balling' and other tactics as a smokescreen because he himself doesn't want to risk it.

And yes Whyte was supposed to fight Ortiz in another jump through hoops 'eliminator', about his third or fourth such one as I recall. He could tell he was being jerked around and told them where to go. He's since fought Parker, Chisora, Rivas, Wach and Povetkin twice while Ortiz has fought Razvan Cojanu, Travis Kauffman, Christian Hammer and Alexander Flores, and still got a shot at Wilder in that period. Pretty clear Whyte was wasting his time (especially given the Wilder is on record flat out refusing to ever fight him) and has maximised his time and advanced his legacy far better going down that route.

 

Not a fan of Wilders excuses after his defeat but too many people are Shitting on him after that defeat and forgetting that ko Streak. If he lands on Fury properly, the third fight will be over quickly. Don't write him off. He is looking hungry and determined for revenge

 

Fighting an opponent who sticks to the outside is frustrating for nearly everyone at HW unless you're a relentless pressure fighter with a high gas tank and a good chin. Those don't even exist anymore unless you count drug cheat miller whose been busted more time than a playboy mansion employee and the mediocre Chisora who fails so many times when he steps up.

Ortiz did have trouble with Scott, but he beat him by ud and dropped him multiple times. Wilder did have some success on the outside, but it's not like he was boxing circles around Ortiz and making him look silly, he actually lost several rounds both fights. Wilder is also taller with otherworldly power that can bail him out.

One fighter you're missing is Sinbad's stunt double tony Thompson who is a decent outside fighter with height and reach but he got knocked out.

I don't think any of these fights are remotely enough evidence to make the case Ortiz severely struggles with outside guys and cannot adapt when out of his comfort zone. A more telling matchup would be against someone like Parker. If he huffs and puffs and loses wide against him that would say a lot, as Parker is pretty durable and likely would go the distance so Ortiz would either need to outbox him or beat him up convincingly.

As for him being offered a fight with Joshua, he wanted more money because it was last minute due to the aforementioned Big dummy Miller's failed drug test. He wasn't ready and wanted to get paid in case he got thrashed.

Yes Whyte grinds out wins and makes the most of the tools he has. I like that about him. But in terms of pure skill, no, I cannot rate him over Ortiz even if he has a deeper resume and therefore has been challenged more. The reason for this is that for one, many of Whyte's opponents aren't exactly these amazing glamorous h2h fighters. And even the ones who actually are good he struggled heavily with.

Who the hell is Lucas Browne and why did that fight even happen? He learned nothing from that fight and the opponent had done nothing before or after the match. Yes he was undefeated but, against who??? He needed two attempts to convincingly beat Chisora whose low B level at best to begin with (you can argue Whyte lost the first one). He was dropped by Rivas and there was controversy over the drug testing so that whole affair has an asterisk*. Parker fight was very very controversial with lots of fouls and a disputed decision. Whyte looked like a goddamn black Michelin man in the fight with wach, another pointless opponent and he looked absolutely horrible. Then he needed two attempts at a 40 year old Povetkin who knocked him out the first time. And if we're being honest, Povetkin looked horrible the 2nd time and gassed after two rounds.

So yes, "on paper" these opponents make Whyte's resume look good, but if you look at the nitty gritty details he has some losses, some controversial decisions, fights where the opponent is out of shape (or he himself is), and fights against guys that not even the most hardcore fans have heard of.

It's not like Whyte is just convincingly beating all these rated guys or knocking them out easily.

 

He was reportedly offered between 6 and 7 million

That's not enough??

And i dont believe he received any step aside money either

He is a good boxer with a horrendous resume and although thats not entirely his fault, he most certainly has played his part

 

But it is unfathomable. That’s exactly the point.

 

Agreed. Good redemption story but its not that big.

 

Its strange, prior to Fury returning to boxing as a "Jack the Lad" figure, probably taking inspiration from Hatton;
- He constantly complained commissions were dodgy
- Constantly claimed the media were against him due to his race
- said the cards are stacked against him in fights due to racism
- Said others cheated by using certain gloves
- Said refs and judges are against him because of his nationality
- complained about commission approved rings (claimed canelo 20ft ring against BJS was a cheat and refused to fight until he got a 22-foot ring, claimed the commission approved floor was too soft and refused to fight until he got a harder one - both just A-Side nuances you get and Fury has benefited from his whole career when he is the A-Side, such as loose ropes and large rings etc.)

All this is soaked up by fans, but when Wilder does it he is a disgrace?

Why is Fury supported for doing the same thing Wilder does?
What is the difference?

 

My fear is Fury has started believing in his own hype and invincibility. He should win the 3rd fight but strange things can happen especially against a puncher though I am not convinced Wilder is mentally all there.

 

The thing is they are both supported for their allegations by their fan boys…I don’t see any difference….Wilder has a network of channels supporting his allegations’ Fury didn’t …but whatever

Actually the U.K. called Fury out on his nonsense hence why he never got the fame and recognition that AJ has and had to run to the USA to reinvent himself

So I don’t understand your argument

they are both unstable nut cases followed fellow unstable nut case fans…SIMPLE

 

If that amount is accurate, That is a lot of money to be honest. Maybe he just wasn't confident he could win on such short notice.

If he didn't receive any step aside money when he was Joshua's mandatory perhaps that is why he played hard ball as he was still angry about not getting his shot and not getting paid when it was supposed to happen the first time.