Fighters of the Century per Futch/Dundee/Clancy/Duva/Chargin - The Welterweights.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by JohnThomas1, Jun 26, 2021.



  1. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes.
     
  2. White Bomber

    White Bomber Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Wow :eek::confused::dunno:dunno:dunno
    How can you have him so low ?!
    He's top 10 with ease.
     
  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You've not been following this thread, have you? Hearns has one good win at WW, a bunch of decent ones and a KO loss. That's it. He doesn't deserve to be top ten because he didn't beat anyone that level. He didn't do the time at the weight which the true top ten WWs did. He doesn't have the résumé. It's like Chavez or Arguello at LW, Harada at flyweight, or Armstrong at feather. They're incredible head-to-head, but they didn't stay long. Or Hearns' case, didn't do much.
     
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  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Hearns's resume at WW is fine. He's 5-1 against guys who are interesting, basically.

    If you want to compare him to Basilio, he only really has three ranked guys who matter - but they really matter. These are Billy Graham (2), Johnny Saxton (ch), Tony DeMarco (ch.). You also want to give him guys like Ike Williams, that definitely qualifies as "interesting" Overall, that's exceptional but two of these guys beat him, as well. He also lost at the weight. He couldn't beat Chuck Davey in two efforts. He's 5-2 in title fights. Ross Virgo outthought him and beat the crap out of him. Johnny Cesario and Eddie Giosa beat him. These guys aren't mugs; Giosa beat some really good fighters, for example, But they weren't special, either and my impression is that Hearns would use splinters of Giosa's bones to pick meat out of his teeth.

    I also believe that Chuck Davey couldn't get a win against Hearns without Hearns blowing out a knee, or tearing a hamstring or breaking an ankle; he would go 50-0 with Davey in fifty fights.

    This is the least of the considerations though and I don't insist upon it as a mitigating factor. I ranked Hearns above Mayweather though, for example, despite Mayweather's better resume as I that I think it is almost impossible for Mayweather to beat Hearns in a real fight - I feel that way.

    IN the end, i'm more impressed by the Hearns "how". He beat Cuevas easily. It was easy. Clyde Gray was Commonwealth champ when Hearns dusted him easily, and it was Hearns' fifteenth fight (Basilio lost to a professional loser named Johnny Cunnigham at the same stage of his career). Former beltholder Angel Espada, just felt like sparring such was Hearns' excess, he was really that much better than the competion.

    When he gets sparked by Leonard, certainly one of the twenty and maybe one of the ten very best in history head-to-head, it was in a competitive fight he very easily could have won.

    What are you being directed to? Who are you being directed there by? In a "list of wins" sense, there is no argument for Hearns at WW to be ranked above Basilio. But there is a lot more information out there. Basilio didn't make my top twenty, for the record, but it's a stacked division.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2021
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  5. White Bomber

    White Bomber Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ah, ok then. I guess I'm too biased cause I look at the H2H a lot.
     
  6. Mike Cannon

    Mike Cannon Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Such as ? keep well.
     
  7. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    Oh was it that obvious?!?!?! :lol:

    I believe the legend that if you say his name three times he appears!!!!! :D

    I'm not used to struggling with uphill battles. Bullying pricks!!!! :lol:

    Wouldn't be dead for quids would we?!?!?! :beer-toast1:
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2021
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  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    Well i won't waste any more of your time then. I'm not debating against 18 names to get him in the ten!!! :lol:
     
  9. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    Now there's a post!!! :ARMS1:
     
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  10. Rope-a-Dope

    Rope-a-Dope Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Looks more like a list based on accomplishments rather than head to head. Hearns had a pretty short run at WW, but I might pick him over like 8 of those guys head to head.
     
  11. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    It makes a case for Hearns, but not based on resume alone.
    I can't see any case for Hearns to be top 10 at welter on accomplishments and record, nevermind above someone like Ross.
     
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  12. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    His post is about resume based. He tells why he considers Hearns resume to be top 10.
     
  13. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    No, I think where McGrain mentions Mayweather having a better resume, he's saying the opposite.

    Anyway, I'm more interested in hearing how Barney Ross doesn't have a better resume than Hearns.
    Hearns has one good win over a great welterweight (who wasn't actually the champion or #1 at the time).
    Clyde Gray might be his second best win at the weight, yes. Clyde Gray is possibly around the level of an Izzy Jannazzo.
     
  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I'm pretty sure Angel Espada hadn't beaten any significant welterweight in years going into the Hearns fight.
    3 years at least, possibly 4 or more.
     
  15. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    Admittedly it included H2H but that component is minute.