The Chavez robberies/gifts thread

Yup. I actually always preferred watching Julio fight, but there's no denying an injustice was done to Pea. I don't really see where fandom fits into it.

 

Close fights being called gifts Scientist?....and you my friend had a list of them......:huh :verysad including fights you thought Chavez won.
Why list them if you yourself saw Chavez win them?
(yeah yeah, I know why you listed them, to stir the pot)

Honest too goodness, the only fight that Chavez won that did'nt appropriately stomach with me was Chavez' rematch with Frankie Randall.
With the point deduction because of the accidental headbutt, I had Chavez ahead by a point.
.....but it just was'nt a conclusive satisfying ending to fight that as a Chavez fan, one could be proud of.
After such an inconclusive ending, the fight deserved a third fight, but it was never to be when it mattered.

Do I fault Chavez for not granting Randall another fight right away?
I really dont see how anyone can look at it and take away from Chavez' legacy.
I see Chavez' list of fights after Randall, and he really was a disinterested half ass trained fighter. It was no longer the P4P great Chavez. He showed up to fights not ready to fight 3 minutes of every round as we had become accustomed to.
He continued to win, but relying more on guile and experience more than anything else.
I remember before the David Kamau fight, Chavez speaking to reporters about being worried that he had'nt done enough in the Gym to fight such a stylistic matchup problem that Kamau was to him.
In his prime, Chavez would have wiped away Kamau without even breathing hard.

......anyways, it was'nt until after the Randall fights where Chavez became an uninterested, whiney type of individual. As in the Kamau fight, he was always complaining about one thing or the other.
The thing about it is that most of his excuses were'nt fabricated, but for the sake of sportmanship, he probably should have kept more tight lipped about it.

All those years before where he was at the top of the mountain, he kept himself in the Gym fighting more times than any other of his peers. The mileage had caught up to Chavez, but it is during this time in Chavez' career that people like to focus on, particularly those that were not happy with the Whitaker draw, or the Taylor stoppage.
It really does Chavez an injustice.

The one poster in the previous deleted thread said it best....."if a fan new to the sport read this thread, they'd think Chavez was a creation of Don King, and that he did'nt stay on top all those years on his merits."
....they'd think Chavez was another John Ruiz or Chris Byrd type kept affloat by bogus decisions.
Thats what was so sad about that thread Scientist, you know as well as I, that the thread and the way Chavez was depicted in it, did'nt do Chavez the great fighter justice.

To much focus on the latter part of his career, and not a mention that these things were occuring during that downhill part of it.

It happens to most of the greats on the way down. They're all full of excuses, even Pernell Whitaker who might have gotten the benefit of the fact that his name was Pernell Whitaker a time or two during his fight career.

 

Thats what the deleted thread was about......an injustice was done to Pernell Whitaker, so lets have a **** party and make Chavez the recipient! That was the full flavor of the thread.:-(

 

Wouldn't the Whitaker fans be the ones on Chavez's side, considering they would only be damaging the rep of their favorite fighters win by attempting to downgrade Chavez?

 

You would think that, but I think alot of Whitaker fans have a hard time stomaching that by many boxing journalist, Chavez ranks higher all-time than Whitaker, and so they **** on any part of Chavez' resume that they can on.

 

I don't think they have a hard time stomaching it, I think they have a hard time believing it when it's simply not true.

 

Who are these journalists?

 

It's a friendly rivalry. These guys go at like like Ali and Frazier did in Manilla.

 

Yeah friendly rivarly, but they go at it like Ali and Frazier in Manilla.

Thats us getting confused with each other, again.

 

I listed all the close fights Chavez had and gave my opinion on them. Some I consider robberies (e.g. Whitaker, Randall II and Ruiz fights) and some I consider highly suspect (Taylor, Gonzalez) and some just short of contentious (Laporte).

There's nothing non-conventional in those opinions. It's hardly a perspective only a Whitaker fan would take - that is of course, unless you are willing to call the vast majority of the boxing community Whitaker fans.

That's fine, but that is a HUGELY unconvetional view. Most intelligent boxing fans have amuch different perspective on Chavez and some of the decisions he recieved, and you just have to accept that. Again, it doesn't mean they are Whitaker fans.

The Randall rubber match was a fight that should have happened, but not nearly to the extent that the Whitaker rematch should have. But as we all know, Don King wanted NONE of that.

It was actually after the Whitaker fight where he became a whiney sore loser. Complaining that Whitaker ran, hit him low, was too big for him, had an American judge etc.

And then to see him turn around after the first Randall fight and tell Richard Steele to get ****ed was the absolute height of irony.

They were his two biggest fights, why wouldn't people focus on them?

The thread wasn't meant to be a Julio Cesar Chavez appreciation thread. It was a thread aimed at bringing to the fore the dicey decisions in his career. That post commenting on what a fan new to the sport would think is IREELEVANT to the thread topic.

There have been plenty of threads dedicated to appreciating Chavez. Just because a thread popped up that questioned some of his victories, it doesn't mean that it was a Chavez hate thread.

As for Whitaker getting the benefit of the doubt in his career, there is exactly 1 fight that was contentious to more than a handful of idiots: the first Rivera fight. And still the consensus on that fight is split. Trying to rival that to some of the dicey decisions Chavez received is a joke.