He actually had some good references to the NY press (not the world press) suppressing Greb's challenges.
1) I have no idea what you mean by ‘suppressing Greb’s challenges.’ 2) The idea that the NY press all got together as one and said, “This particular fighter is not paying us money on the side, so we’re going to make sure that decades from now he won’t be considered one of the GOAT” is pretty ridiculous. 3) It’s another one of Klompton’s shortsighted conclusions. He decided that (a) Greb’s team wasn’t paying the NY press, plus (b) some members of the NY press did not think he was an ATG upon seeing him = (c) they really thought he was great but because he wasn’t paying him on the side then they got together and decided to make it seem like he wasn’t as great as he ‘really’ was. A and B can both be true without coming to C as a conclusion. For one thing, it presupposes that EVERY fighter who got favorable reviews from the NY press was a result of side payments and EVERY fighter who did not get favorable reviews was a result of lack of payments to NY sports writers. 4) Is it also true that every single sports writer NOT in NY who saw Greb was completely blown away and thought he was a generational force? Apart from the Pittsburgh press, which was overflowing in their homerism in support of their boy (but of course nothing suspicious about that — no chance they got some spare change their way?), were there not also occasions where Greb fought and they reported something along the lines of ‘this guy is crude and a dirty fighter, an eyesore even if an effective one’? This one guy who happens to have written a book on Greb and defends every moment of his life (go find the thread about the time Greb beat up a black man on the street because he spoke to a white woman) as if he was a minor god … and he develops a theory with no proof or foundation that the NY press conspired to keep Greb from having a legacy as an ATG. It’s absolute fact that he was not, in his day, regarded as the greatest fighter who ever lived … or one of the top two or three. Newspapermen from everywhere but NY didn’t all say he was the cat’s ass and only the NY press was critical.
It wasnt until the 1980s or so that grebs incredible no decision bouts were figured out... Before that relatively few knew his record... Everyone who fought him knew he was great but his nd record was basically a mystery. He was the best there ever was
Interesting post ... I do think his record is intense ands speaks for itself however I have read a few passing comments along the way that his style was not crowd pleasing and that he was not a big draw ..
Klompton: "That's cute, Me and some friends have film of Greb sparring hard and I can screen shot some parts of it to you. But if you ask to see the whole thing you are a ****in roach"
I imagine that he fought in a style that he more or less invented to suit himself, his skills and abilities. I also bet that it was a very visually difficult style that takes some time to recognize and appreciate. So if any footage of him ever does surface the internet geniuses will say that he sucked, everyone he fought sucked too, because he failed the "eye test." Which is just silly because the "eye test" means nothing unless you are looking at what makes a fighter effective.
His record does speak for itself. I’m in no way insinuating that he wasn’t great in his day based on his accomplishments or even that he’s not an ATG … I was bringing up a thread where there was a discussion about how recognition of such (and his rise to be among the elite of the elites) seemed to come long after his time. I think in some way he actually benefits from not having film — I seriously doubt from what we do know that we’d see someone who would impress us in the way, say, Ray Robinson does if we did have film. No description I know of makes him sound like a pleasing-to-the-eye master technician, nor did he possess lights-out power. There’s a description from Mickey Walker — who spoke highly of him and was in no way casting stones — of a moment in their fight where Greb completely turned his back on Mickey … and then struck him a blow somehow. Walker doesn’t know how he did it and was impressed, but one wonders if it was a backfist (which would be an illegal blow) and I can’t help but think whatever trick he pulled there that we would, were there film of this fight available to us, that most of us would not applaud the ‘brilliance’ of turning his back to his opponent to set up whatever kind of (sucker?) punch.
Jersey Joe Walcott was known for walk away from an opponent and landing a right hand. Lonnie Smith suckered Billy Costello with that move several times if I recall correctly. And I am not disagreeing with you. I figure Greb's would be very unorthodox and not that impressive to watch until, and unless, you invested the time to figure out why it worked. I don't believe that it would be something that you could teach to someone else.
I seriously doubt K would ever have said that....my recollection was that he was always fair on offering trades / swaps if he could..barring external limitations. I also distinctly remember K offering viewings to brother ESB's if they were willing to travel to view things which he couldn't share. Under the circumstances, one cannot get more generous than that....as it should be remembered that these are not baseball cards you can buy out of a bubblegum machine but personal property with various legal / broadcast / copyright rights attaching to various aspects of it. Then there's the whole related topic of those people who simply just don't deserve to see rare fight footage under any circumstance (but that's another issue) let alone be given it freely. All that said, I expect that we will all (the deserving and undeserving as well) become the 'lucky' recipients of Greb footage within the next few years....for better or worse.
exactly I do not think unearthing footage of Greb is gonna do anything ,Look at people like that bomber dummy saying Langford is less skilled than Canelo Alvarez
Where people get off track...in the last 30 years or more, clinching was something you did when you were hurt or don't know what to do next. Before that, guys knew exactly what they were doing when they clinched, they did on purpose and every move that they did after a clinch was as carefully rehearsed as spending hours slipping punches. Many years ago I bought a pretty long video of Les Darcy training and the majority of it was practicing wrestling in clinches. Without giving an opinion on the fight, if Langford could get close to Robinson and wrestle him in close, he would wear him down pretty quickly. Robinson didn't know how to fight like that. When you start crossing eras with radically different rules and mindsets and equipment....
Joey Maxim really knew how to handle guys in clinches. The average (and above average) fighter didn't know whether he was coming or going when Maxim grabbed him. Joey'd push him off balance at the same time he was switching the arm he was holding to free up his opponent's other side and then dig a shot or two to the body and then go back to grabbing the original arm before his opponent knew what he happened. And then he'd do the same thing beginning with the other arm. Even Archie Moore had trouble with Maxim. Maxim came pretty close to defeating Moore in their second fight. If anyone wants to know what a good fighter Bobo Olson was, watch him against Maxim. He handled Joey better than anyone inside, except maybe Ezzard Charles who was bigger than Olson and was crafty enough to do enough damage inside to give Joey second thoughts about holding on for too long.
Again, I find it pretty hard to argue against his success against an exceptional level of competition .. to me he seems to be some sort of hyrid version of Calzache ( with an iron chin ) and Pryor ( without the power ) .. his heart, conditioning, chin, strength and speed seem to have been off the chart ...
