I know you you are entrenched in your Opinion but the fact is Ali stopped all the fighters i mentioned and if you dont even consider that Ali could stop Lewis you are seriously deluded
His argument is "because X beat Y that means he would definitely beat Z", and boxing isn't like that. Every fight is a self contained entity, and a hundred variables can influence the outcome. If boxing followed his rules we'd never see upsets, and nobody would even rise through the ranks. I've said from the start I just don't see Ali knocking Lewis out. Boxing to a decision, yes, of course. But, actually bashing Lewis so badly he puts him on his backside for 10 seconds? Don't see it, personally.
I'm a little surprised how few votes Iron Mike has gotten. There are some who say he isn't big enough, both weight wise and also height. I personally don't agree, but I accept the premise. Prime Mike was so ferocious, so quick, so fearless, that I've got to give him a good chance against anyone.
I think 1988 th Mike and prime HW versions of Holyfield when he had bulked up from approx 190 lbs till 208-210 lber and looked like a bodybuilder had stopped Ali from 70 ies version in distance. Prime Ali was in 60 ies when he had beated up a lot of modern LHW and CW size boxers, old c o cky Liston ( btw this likes me damn a lot, vuala, me likes this fact ). Ali maybe is most overrated boxer in all boxing history. He had fought 2 boxers with styles more close to modern boxing in approx 190 lbs Patterson and in Norton. Nothing more and overvalued Ali from 70 ies had fought vs Foreman in hole : Zaire where dictator was Ali fan. He never had gave rematch to Foreman because he was " The Greatest " cash cow. All these insults vs Frazier and King's judges cards, Ali for me is 1-2 vs Frazier who yeah, is smaller than a lot of modern " puny cruiserweight " boxers in the ring. Ali in 70 ies was dirty boxer and he was not Witali, therefore it is cool and he is " The Greatest " while IRL he had only backup from King and brilliant ATG level chin. This is here what this is.
This post is disingenuous i did not state that because Ali beat Foreman he beats Lewis. I was merely pointing out the fact that if Ali could stop Foreman its entirely feasible he does the same to Lewis.This is in response to all those who make Lewis`s size a factor.You may well disagree but to dismiss the possibility of this happening is pure folly
Yeah, you did exactly that. You claimed that because Ali beat Foreman he could beat Lewis...basically the "because X beat Y doesn't mean he beats Z" example I gave was entirely accurate as a way to summarise your claim and then refute it. Now, you are trying to play word games - but your tone, and the context, supports my argument. Which is that it doesn't automatically follow that just because Ali was able to "stop" Foreman he could/would do the same to Lewis. I disagreed with that premise, and gave my reason - again, that just because X was able to beat Y doesn't mean he also beats Z etc... There was nothing "disingenuous" about it. There is also no folly involved - I have said upteen times that I can absolutely see Ali boxing to a decision (though I am not saying it's a guarantee). I just don't see him knocking out Lennox. Sorry, I don't. The fact that people disagree with me is good, that's what makes a forum worth visiting. If we all agreed with each other on everything it would be boring...and I for one wouldn't bother sticking around.
I think the suggestion "Ali is the most overrated boxer in all boxing history" is a bit much. Anyone can be called overrated if you dissect their career in a surgical manner. But, when you consider his charisma, his movement, the stuff he went through, the guys he beat, the scale and impact his big fights in Zaire and Manilla had on sport, and the longevity he had, he has to be given his due.
I thought you said he was the "most overrated boxer in all boxing history"? That implies he's not that great, that he isn't at that elite level.
I love Valuev, he’s a childhood hero, but that draw was disgraceful. He was clearly beat and outclassed. He was shot though as you said.
Depends on the draw. I think Ali beats everyone on that list bar Frazier. I think Frazier loses to everyone but Klitschko and Fury. So Ali should win, unless he has to face Frazier, in which case he won't.
Well, Ali from 60 ies was not only pro boxing champ, he was Olympic Gold medalist in era without these modern sissy am approved gloves. Of course even if he never was a pro, I still had valued him cos this alone highly without any doubts. He also had beat Patterson, who was not only former pro boxing champ but also Olympic Gold medalist in OLD ERA. Both of them were 100% legit champs without doubts in both: ams and pro ranks. He had beat Liston while he was an underdog before their first fight. With this alone he had proved that he is very good and deserves to be HOF boxer with 0 doubts. Even am boxing then was damn harsh stuff if compare with modern days, damn harsh game. Ali in 60 ies had better legs than prime ( am star ) Usyk might dream to have btw. Ali from 70 ies was suspicious in some kind. He was not so agile anymore. He get rematches if he had lost fights and didn't had gave rematch fight to Foreman while their 1 st fight was in hole with dictator not in US or UK. Yeah, and depending from ref and judges, location his record from 70 ies might be different. His handlers also had dragged Foreman to fight vs him in Zaire and Frazier in Manila for marquee fight and I suspect that this was for a reason. Manila fight I think was 1 alone he legit had won vs Frazier. So yeah, Ali from 70 ies for me looks suspicious. Norton fights too, I think he won 1 fight vs Norton.
Oh, absolutely, there's no question Ali from the 60s was a different proposition to the Ali of the 70s. But, that's not too much of a surprise. Age is the biggest factor in a lot of sports. Ali carried on boxing at least a few years too long, and it cost him his health in the long run. I read somewhere that Ali was hit on or around the head over 10,000 times during his career.
