Why are we so biased/obsessed with old fighters/era's

You are wrong on so many levels. As soon as you start denigrating the ATG opposition of Duran, Hearns and SRL then you've pretty much highlighted a complete ignorance of the sport of boxing. They were each all time greats because they beat pretty much everyone else before facing each other, something that modern day boxers only do rarely. You need to look at Hagler's resume from before he became champion to know that wasn't fed any soft touches and was tempered and ready before he finally became champion.

 

I thought that same-day weigh-ins had already ended by the time Hagler and SRL fought? Hagler weighed more than 160 fight night, look at his build, don't believe that man weighs 160 fight night.

Duran is a LW. Canelo is a natural MW. Look at him vs Kovalev, vs Smith, vs Chavez Jr - he's dwarfed in size. He's moving up because he can, but he can easily make 160 if he didn't bulk up.

Hagler was 33 ffs, he wasn't that old. I've watched over 20 of Hagler's fights, was obsessed with him, but this debate is a classic example for the thread. Canelo is p4p 1, potentially the best of his generation, that means he stands alongside anyone in history, including Hagler. He looks better than Hagler to me.

Hagler struggled with a LW Duran, I think Canelo or GGG would have stopped Duran, in fact, based on Hearns vs Duran, I'm SURE they stop Duran at MW.

SRL was RETIRED, lol. bloody retired, and casually came back to beat Hagler at his own weight class. SRL looked slow and sluggish compared to his WW self. He beat Hagler because Hagler was walking around the ring like a lost child. Canelo or GGG would have stopped that SRL.

Hagler's work rate won't work against Canelo, Canelo will slip and launch a 3-punch combo, then roll out. Hagler is not stopping Canelo either, so I don't see how he can stop him on points when he's being out landed 2-1. Hagler-GGG would be a better match, I think Hagler's workrate will be more effective against GGG as GGG takes too much time to set himself. His power will also be useless against a rock like Hagler.

 

You're ignorant for making assumptions. I probably watched more fights of the fab 4 than you. Hagler was the reason I started boxing 20 years ago, I studied him inside out.

 

Why are you calling Duran a lightweight then call Mayweather a welterweight. The double standards are real LOL. At least be consistent because you're contradicting yourself badly. Mayweather fought at 135 just as Duran did and the consensus is that Duran was a far better LW and even went to welterweight and beat Sugar Ray Leonard which is better than anything Mayweather ever did at welterweight yet here you are not calling Mayweather a light weight as Mayweather put a boxing masterclass on Canelo. Mayweather was 147 on fight night while Canelo was over 160. But at the very least Hagler and Duran both fought as middleweights. Duran had success at middleweight, Mayweather not so much. Even if you claim that Mayweather rehydrated against Canelo as well you don't have any idea how big he was, maybe 153 at most ? Canelo was 166 i believe. Thats a huge size advantage

"He looks better than Hagler" LOL. The eye test can be deceiving. Canelo has better head movement and is quicker but Hagler had better punch selection, could infight better, had decent head movement of his own, was sharper, was a southpaw which it's clear Canelo struggles with southpaws. Everything GGG can do, Marvin Hagler can do and more

Canelo would not have the workrate to outwork Hagler although his judged might gift him a decision. Hagler would keep up an agressive pace and Canelo will gas just like he did against GGG and if he tried to fight in the pocket that favors Hagler even more. Canelo can fight on the inside but he never fights chest to chest and also keeps a small distance against his opponents. He would get pushed back.

Because Duran got KO'd by Hearns who is quick as hell and is an absolutely murderous puncher that means Canelo and GGG destroy him ? Ok based on both GGG fights Canelo would get his ass whooped by Marvin Hagler whats your point.

Leonard was retired but was still quick handed, and had quick feet. Canelo does not. Leonard knew not to consistently trade with Hagler and ran around him and used his height and reach. Canelo doesn't fight like that and he doesn't have the height and reach to do it anyway. Hagler was 33 but it was incredibly clear he was slower and less coordinated compared to his prime. Fighters age differently. Leonard was retired but he was still in great shape and trained in the gym and sparred. You ignored that point last time

You think Canelo is quick enough to slip into range, land a 3 punch combination and slip out against someone as good in the exchanges as Hagler ? Show an example of Canelo doing this against a world class fighter at middleweight. Hagler is not just going to stand there and let Canelo tee off on him. He will go to war with Canelo. Delusional beyond belief.

 

I remember watching the fights live back in the day. The divisions they competed in were stacked compared to today and you Hagler especially had to more than earn his shot. I'm not saying that a fight with Canelo or GGG would be a forgone conclusion but Hagler is widely regarded as the best middleweight of all time with good reason. He was one of the most driven fighter I have ever witnessed in the ring and possessed a repertoire of skills and toughness that was unmatched. In my opinion he beat SRL watch the breakdown by Modern Martial artist on youtube and it's obvious that SRL managed to hoodwink the judges with flashy bursts but Hagler bossed the fight down the stretch.
So in answer you're the individual who shows ignorance in the way you dismiss the quality of Hearns, Duran and SRL as a means of diminishing Hagler and therefore rationalising that Canelo would have the tools to beat him. If Canelo is as great as you think he is why did 'little' Floyd Mayweather box his ears off? After all Canelo had all the advantages in size and power but was soundly beaten. Could you really see Mayweather being able to do the same to Hagler? I rest my case.

 

Mayweather is an ATG WW, he is a WW. Nobody would ever call Duran a MW. He's an ATG LW and undersized at WW, but still an ATG at that weight. Mayweather didn't fight Canelo at 160, as Duran did.

 

But Duran BEAT an ATG welterweight in his prime and Carlos Palomino as well. He isn't an ATG welter because he moved to middleweight quickly and didn't do enough as a welter but he was incredibly skilled. Do you know what Sugar Ray Leonard would have done to Mayweather if they fought ? and Canelo was 166 on fight night against Mayweather

 

SRL was a retired fighter who hasn't done much at MW aside from beat Hagler.

Hearns has also not done much at MW, anyone who gets knocked out by Barkley at MW isn't really that great a MW at all. What do you think Canelo or GGG would have done to Barkley? Hint: Probably not much different to what Benn did, a true MW with power. He then proceeds to get beat by an already shot SRL.

Duran, meanwhile, has literally done nothing of note at MW aside from pull off a great upset win over Barkley. It was a great win but let's not act like Barkley is the bar to reach for defining what an ATG MW H2H is.

I love the fab 4 as much as any other, not even a big fan of GGG or Canelo, I certainly love the fab 4 more. But people like you let nostalgia cloud your judgement and logic. And as you have said, you watched those fights live - how can you possibly judge this unbiased?

 

Where did I say Duran wasn't an ATG WW? I just said "he's still an ATG at THAT weight, meaning WW". By ATG, I mean ATG h2h.

At MW though, he's nothing there. There are maybe 100 MWs that could beat Duran at MW.

Floyd beating Canelo is not even comparable, they never fought at MW, so I don't see how it's even relevant to the conversation. You''re better off bringing up Saunders, Lara or Jacobs, guys he actually fought around the MW limit. Canelo fought Floyd at 152.

 

There you go again running down the achievements of all time greats in an effort to make out that Canelo or GGG are greater fighters. Post a poll on here and see how many people agree with you.

 

There you go with 0 logic in your argument. Which part of what I said is untrue?

 

What you're doing is the classic tactic of cherry picking facts to suit your argument because you've convinced yourself that Canelo is superior to a consensus ATG from the past. I really can't be bothered to counter flawed logic. What's the point? You've convinced yourself that you're right so no logical argument is likely to change that.

 

Then stop showing your bias. Canelo was 166 on fight night therfore an obvious high end middle weight against Mayweather and still got schooled. Duran and Hagler both weighed in at middleweight on fight night. Mayweather didn't even fight at middleweight LOL.

 

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/canelo-vs-hagler-at-middleweight-who-wins.670786/
Just to illustrate my point.

 

There is nothing cherry-picked about what I outlined on what they did at MW. You want to tell me what they did great at MW, or show how well they fared h2h at MW, then show me? WTF did they actually do at MW to make you think they could have gone h2h with true MW greats? I'm talking about Duran, SRL and Hearns? You're doing the classic case of dismiss the argument instead of arguing the argument, because you don't have one.

You want people to assume you're right just for the sake of it, without bringing any facts to the table. As much as a fan as I am of Bruce Lee, you remind me of their most ardent fans - "Bruce Lee beats anyone in mma today just because, no facts to back it up, just because".

You're blinded by nostalgia, exactly what this thread is about. And your presumption that I'm even a Canelo fan, lol.