Figure It Out - Pacquiao´s Power.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Badbot, Jul 29, 2021.



  1. tealt

    tealt Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Did you use the same argument for Mayweather beating pac. The majority of fans, fighters and media said Mayweather beat pac handedly. Either way the fight was rescored by 5 other judges. One had pac winning, one draw. and the other 3 had winning by one round.
     
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  2. Lesion of Doom

    Lesion of Doom Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'm not trying to wade into this rivalry among posters but will say that I do think some fighters lose power in an absolute sense as they put on weight. For example, they can lose speed due to the weight or, more likely, flexibility from increased muscle mass. Wilder vs Fury 2 is an example of this, as Wilder was too bulky through his shoulders and his punches lacked as much snap.

    But mostly I would say the above applies mostly to HWs, because guys tend not to gain "recreational" muscle as they move up in weight class. There are examples of people moving way up who did so (think roided up Vinny Paz at 168), but generally they are just retaining more of their natural weight. The loss of power in most cases is relative, such as Adrien Broner losing all of his pop as he went up. I don't he punches any less hard, he just can't dent bigger guys.

    So in Pacquiao's case, I suspect he did not punch any less hard vs ODLH than he did Hatton.
     
  3. JOKER

    JOKER Froat rike butterfry, sting rike MFER! banned Full Member

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    I thought that Pac beat Mayweather based on work done. Neither man did ****, but Pac stunned Mayweather twice, had him bleeding from the mouth, and his own daddy calling him a coward after the 7th round. If you want to say Floyd won and stole rounds off of glancing jabs and perpetual clinching, cool.

    My stance has ALWAYS been that it should be an NC based on Floyd using illegal IVs and retroactively receiving a TUE for no reason other than he brings big money into Vegas. Plus Pac was injured (confirmed by everyone).
     
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  4. tealt

    tealt Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Of course you though Pac beat Mayweather. Quit using the "most fans, media and fighter thought" argument then. Lots of media though pac lost all 4 to Marquez. So what. Some times you get the benefit and some times you don't. Hopefully it washes out. Having an excuse for every loss is pathetic. I am not a pac hater just a delusional fan hater. I wish you would be honest with yourself that Thurman has only fought 2 times in 4 years and Lucas retired like the next fight. pac was favored in both fights. Bob Arum said Thurman was officially done after the Lopez fight. We will see with Spence. Some on here are already predicting pac getting robbed lol.
     
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  5. Badbot

    Badbot I Am An Actual Pro. Full Member

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    :dunno Alright.
     
  6. Badbot

    Badbot I Am An Actual Pro. Full Member

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    We are not talking about a difference of 20 lbs.
    It was 4lbs. With 20lbs he would be physically stronger but likely much slower.

    If you argued that Pacquiao was less powerful at 142 because De La Hoya was the naturally bigger man, I would 100% agree.
    But your argument was that Pacquiao "cut" 4 lbs and thus his power increased. Which makes no sense.

    Pacquiao was reportedly 148.5 lbs on fight night vs Oscar.
    He was supposedly in similar territory for Hatton.
    So, again, how does extra de-hydration help increase power?
     
  7. Mike_b

    Mike_b Well-Known Member Full Member

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    PAC at 160 would get slaughtered by Hopkins just liike hoya did. PAC vs Canelo at 160 would be a good effort at greatness just like when Oscar dared to fight Bernard. The thing is Canelo Keeps improving so idk if PAC can get that 9th division. It's too much to ask for the little guy.

    However Oscar on the other hand, I can't take anything he says seriously. Does he even believe his own words lol? Calling out Canelo lol. Stick to the triller sideshows Oscar!
     
  8. Robney

    Robney ᴻᴼ ᴸᴼᴻᴳᴲᴿ ᴲ۷ᴵᴸ Full Member

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    :lol:
    Don’t read to much into it.
     
  9. Mike_b

    Mike_b Well-Known Member Full Member

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    PAC wouldn't be nothing without Freddie, and Freddie wouldn't be nothing without pacman. Meaning they both contributed to a combination of team work

    I recant that; PAC would've still made noise but look at the DRASTIC difference in the Morales fights! He was improving under the tutelage of Freddie. He turned him into a little offensive machine! And as for Freddie, he still would've had a great but not so great as run.

    Freddie is my inspiration in many ways. He deals with chronic pain and openly admits the pain does not bother him. That's breaking off game, made my chronic pain more bearable considering his words.

    I think Fred is old school, he doesn't believe in much weight cutting for his fighters. Just like the old days when they weighed in then drank a glass of water before getting in the ring. He believes more in depth perception s and angles, just like the great Muhammad Ali. Using distance and timing to get in and get out, screwing up the other fighters depth perception... It seems to work for Pacquiao and some of his other fighters, the weight thing I mean.
     
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  10. Mike_b

    Mike_b Well-Known Member Full Member

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    And btw for whatever it's worth, money Mayweather has no power. Just ask Oscar, who was hoping Floyd's little punches would break his hand on Oscar de la Hoya s noggin. Weird gameplan, but even weirder guy, smh
     
  11. Badbot

    Badbot I Am An Actual Pro. Full Member

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    :lol:
    I actually wanted to tell you to **** off, but then I literally thought to myself: "Am I overthinking this?"
    Almost channeled my inner CST.
     
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  12. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    https://punditarena.com/boxing/thepateam/press-scores-manny-pacquiao-vs-jeff-horn-tell-need-know/

    88% of the media had Pac. Only 12% had Horn. To put that into perspective, that’s the same percentage of the population that are homosexual. It’s a fringe anomaly and that’s a unanimous as any scorecard.

    also, Pac-horn was in horns backyard. Pac-Floyd was in floyds backyard. Huge difference.
     
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  13. Badbot

    Badbot I Am An Actual Pro. Full Member

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    Who are the "media"? Boxing experts or what?
    And if you look at it, many of them didn´t even provide their scores.
     
  14. tealt

    tealt Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Your last statement about it being in Floyd's backyard is irrelevant to what the fans, media and other fighters saw. I am sure that the same percentage of people who say pac beat horn is the same percentage that say Mayweather beat pac. You can't use the "most people felt" logic on the horn fight and not for the may/pac fight. Most people saw Mayweather school pac. If you want to use a different logic fine but using a logic that you refuse to apply elsewhere is insanity.
     
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  15. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    really...


    Full scores:
    Bob Velin (USA Today) – 115-112 Pacquiao

    Nick Tylwalk (FanSided) – 116-112 Pacquiao
    Steve Bunce (BoxNation) – 115-113 Horn
    Mike Sloan (Sherdog) – 116-111 Pacquiao
    Gary Randall (Sherdog) – 116-112 Horn
    Mike Fridley (Sherdog) – 115-112 Horn
    Gary Parrish (CBS Sports) – Pacquiao won
    Brian Campbell (CBS Sports) – 114-114
    Jason McIntyre (Fox Sports 1) – Pacquiao won
    Dieter Kurtenbach (Fox Sports) – Pacquiao won
    Skip Bayless (Fox Sports) – Horn won
    Josh Katzowitz (Forbes) – 115-112 Pacquiao
    Brian Mazique (Forbes) – 114-114
    Fraser Coffeen (Bloody Elbow) – 116-112 Pacquiao
    Anton Tabuena (Bloody Elbow) – Pacquiao won
    Bad Left Hook – 116-111 and 115-113 Pacquiao
    Mike Coppinger (Ring Magazine) – Pacquiao won
    Michael Rosenthal (Ring Magazine) – 116-112 Pacquiao
    Ryan Songalia (Ring Magazine and Rappler) – 117-110 Pacquiao
    Doug Fischer (Ring Magazine) – 116-112 or 115-113 Pacquiao
    Tom Gray‏ (Ring Magazine) – “Had Horn wide mate.”
    Mike Baca II (Ring Magazine and Undisputed Champion Network) – “I’ve already rewatched. 115-113 Pac was the lowest I could go…”
    Steve Kim (Undisputed Champion Network) – Pacquiao won
    Lance Pugmire (LA Times) – 116-112 Pacquiao
    Boxing News – 115-113 Pacquiao (Verdict: Close fight, no robbery)
    Michael Wilbon (ESPN) – Pacquiao won
    Dan Rafael (ESPN) – 117-111 Pacquiao
    Marcellus Wiley (ESPN) – Pacquiao won
    Ramona Shelburne (ESPN) – Pacquiao won
    Nigel Collins (ESPN) – 114-113 Pacquiao (“Disagree w/ the “robbery” talk.”)
    Stephen A. Smith (ESPN) – Pacquiao robbed!!!!
    Teddy Atlas (ESPN) – 116-111 Pacquiao
    Arash markazi (ESPN) – Pacquiao won
    T.J. Quinn (ESPN) – Pacquiao won (“This is a hometown hit job. Manny looked old, but mostly in control.”)
    Salvador Rodriguez‏ (ESPN) – 116-112 Pacquiao
    Greg Bishop (Sports Illustrated) – 117-111 Pacquiao
    Al Bernstein (Showtime Sports) – “I could see a draw or close for Pac”
    Chris Mannix (Yahoo! Sports) – Pacquiao won
    Kevin Iole (Yahoo! Sports) – 115-113 for Pacquiao
    Gareth A. Davies (The Telegraph) – 115-113 Pacquiao

    Jay Cowan (Spike Sports) – 115-112 Pacquiao
    Marcos Villegas (Fight Hub TV) – “I had him (Pacquiao) up by one point.”
    Jonathan Snowden (Bleacher Report) – “I had Manny Pacquiao in a close fight.”
    ******* – 116-112 Pacquiao
    Ryan Phillips (The Big Lead) – 116-111 Pacquiao
    Lennox Lewis – Pacquiao won
    Lou DiBella (promoter) – 116-112 Pacquiao
    DJ Gallo (The Guardian) – 117-111 pacquiao
    Ben Thompson (Fight Hype) – 115-112 Pacquiao
    Jeff Powell (The Daily Mail) – Pacquiao robbed
    Bob Sheridan (commentator) – 114-114
    Paulie Malignaggi – “I had horn by a point…”
    Eric Raskin (Former writer for ESPN and Grantland) – 114-114
    Graham Houston (Boxing Monthly) – 114-114 (“Cd. have gone either way.”)
    Martin Chesnutt (Boxing Monthly) – 115-112 Pacquiao (“…but was comfortable with 115-113 either way.”)
    Andrew Harrison (Boxing Monthly) – 116-113 Horn
    Adam Abramowitz‏ (Saturday Night Boxing and Transnational Boxing Rankings board member) – 116-111 Pacquiao
    Rafael G (The Fight City) – “Pacquiao won by 2 or 3 points.”
    Lee Wylie (The Fight City) – Pacquiao won (“…certainly not a robbery. Close fight.”)
    Patrick Connor‏ (BWAA/IBRO member) – Pacquiao won
    Michael Montero (Montero On Boxing) – 116-112 Pacquiao
    Behind the Gloves – 117-110 Pacquiao
    Erik Morales – Pacquiao robbed
    Juan Manuel Marquez – 116-112 Pacquiao
    Timothy Bradley – Pacquiao won (very close fight)
    Guillermo Rigondeaux – Pacquiao won
    Kobe Bryant – …….
    MEDIA SCORES
    Gary Randall
    Sherdog.com 116-112 Horn
    Mike Fridley
    Sherdog.com 115-112 Horn
    Brian Campbell
    CBSSports.com 114-114 DRAW
    Pedro Carneiro
    MMABrasil.com.br 113-115 Pacquiao
    BadLeftHook.com 113-115 Pacquiao
    Cory Braiterman
    MMAMania.com 113-115 Pacquiao
    Kevin Iole
    Yahoo.com 113-115 Pacquiao
    Tim Dahlberg
    Associated Press 113-115 Pacquiao
    Sporting News 112-115 Pacquiao
    USA Today 112-115 Pacquiao
    Fraser Coffeen
    BloodyElbow.com 112-116 Pacquiao
    Phil Murphy
    ESPN 112-116 Pacquiao
    Mike Sloan
    Sherdog.com 111-116 Pacquiao
    Dan Rafael
    ESPN.com 111-117 Pacquiao
    The Guardian 111-117 Pacquiao