Was Cus D Amato too over protective of his fighters? Floyd Patterson.

Floyd was 19 years old, had been a pro for a year and a half, and weighed 168 pounds when he fought Hall of Famer Joey Maxim.

By the time he was 20, he'd fought Yvonne Durelle twice.

Floyd was 21 years old when he fought Hall of Famer Archie Moore.

By the time he was 22, he'd fought the top-rated heavyweight Tommy "Hurricane" Jackson twice, as well.

Bouts with two hall of famers and four fights with top rated contenders in your first four years, all by age 22, doesn't seem too overprotective.

Once he became champ, they tried to avoid IBC fighters because it was mob controlled. Since many of the top guys were IBC fighters, it limited who Patterson faced. When the IBC was dissolved, though, he kind of fought everyone.

The Patterson team spent a whole year trying to get a fight with Marciano, who drug it out until finally deciding not to come back. Then Patterson ended up making two title defenses against Johansson and a defense against Liston.

In the end, he beat two Hall of Famers to become a two-time heavyweight champ. He put the title on the line eight times, three against Hall of Famers. And he lost his title twice to two Hall of Famers.

If Rocky said yes, he would've defended against four Hall of Famers in eight defenses.

There is a difference between "protecting" someone from dangerous opponents and not wanting to get tangled up in contracts with mobsters.

 

1956: He fought fellow top contender Jackson and then nr 1 Moore for the title.

1957: Fought his nr. 1 contender Jackson.

1958: Faced nr. 3 or 4 contender Harris.

1959: Faced nr. 1 contender Ingo.

1960: Faced champion Ingo.

1961: Faced Ingo, the only man to KO, him a third time.

1962: Faced outstanding nr. 1 contender Liston.


That isn't overly protected, I think. Cus did try and protect him from Liston, but failed.

 

Cus protected Buster Mathis as well. Mathis had serious talent, size etc. He did the same mental job he did with Patterson. Jose Torres had some issues as well with Cus, maybe more ignoring him.

I do wonder how Cus would have managed Mike in the pros. He knew Tyson could take a punch better than Patterson. IDK old habits die hard. Tyson's put him in with the best heavyweights available on a pretty consistant basis.

 

To say Rademacher was ‘unranked’ is the understatement of the century.

He literally had not had a pro fight. It’s like saying I’m unranked lol.

 

Thanks for the rankings! Didn't know London was nr. 4 with NBA. Where do you get their rankings?

EDIT: Found them on Boxrec https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/National_Boxing_Association#Quarterly_Ratings:_By_Year

 

Let's remember when Patterson did eventually fight Liston late in 62 that was without Cus. Yes he was still the manager of record but it was against his wishes. Floyd made that decision against his manager.

 

Makes me wonder if Cus’ coddling of his guys might have had something to do with their insecurities. Seems against the odds for all of his best fighters to be scared of their own shadows — can’t think of another trainer who had that particular problem with a string of top guys.

When you talk all the time about fear, you’re reinforcing the concept whether that’s your intent or not. Maybe better to let your guys be overly confident and hope they fight up to that blind, stupid belief in themselves.

 

I think boxing can attract kids who are insecure. Reading his biography, I don't think Patterson was ever overly confident as a young man. He was never confident until he matured after he lost the title for the second time. Tyson was also insecure as a kid. I think it's a stretch to blame D'Amato for instilling fear in guys who were already insecure when they walked into the gym. I think both Patterson and Tyson were helped by D'Amato's teachings more than they were hurt. In other words, their lives probably turned out better than they otherwise would have, IMO.

 

I'm not sure if e.g., Rocky Marciano's choice of opponents was so much better.
Patterson didn't fight Zora Folley and Eddie Machen, but at the end of the day Johansson and Liston. Tommy Jackson was pretty good too and Roy Harris was also okay.
Marciano didn`t fight against No.1 contender Nino Valdes.
Bob Baker, Clarence Henry or Bob Satterfield might be more interesting opponents than Don Cockell or Roland LaStarza. At the end, he fought against Archie Moore who has beaten many top contenders (including Valdez).
I don't want to criticize Rocky Marciano's opposition, just don't see that big difference.
Taking into account the difficult conditions for black boxers in earlier years and all these alphabet belt politics later...
So, all in all, his choice of opponents was not particularly bad, regardless of Cus D'Amato's possible intentions.
The bout against Pete Rademacher wasn't a fair matchup though.

 

Right. But Floyd was 22. He was pretty small. And Rademacher in his late 20s and was a beast in the amateurs and the Olympics.

I know recent super heavyweight gold medalist Jalolov has officially had pro fights, but if he was turning pro next time out just after winning the Olympics, and a 22-year-old, smallish former middleweight Olympian had won the vacant heavyweight title ... people would be curious to see that.

Keep in mind, it came a month after Floyd knocked out his #1 contender, and according to Patterson's bio, they were already negotiating to try to get Marciano next up.

It was a filler fight. No worse, really, than fighting someone like Evangelista (who was a pro for all of 16 months and coming off a loss when he fought Ali) or a Coopman when they fought for titles.

 

It was certainly justifiable.

Cus took Radmacher and Jackson together and had one camp for the two fights. Floyd went straight to the gym after beating his #1 contender because Radmacher was just weeks away.

They didn’t break camp to make that fight with Radmacher.

 

It is the most disgraceful fight in heavyweight boxing history, tarnishing the most important prize in sports to let an amateur fight for it.

It’s like letting a high school team play in the Super Bowl.

If Floyd was too small and too young, Cus shouldn’t have let him fight for the heavyweight championship. Once you’re heavyweight champ, you don’t get to say ‘but wait, I’m but a small child.’

 

LOL

 

What do you think about the proposed super fight between Muhammad Ali vs Teófilo Stevenson?

 

Would have been a nice exhibition, like Ali vs. the wrestler Inoki.

You don’t get a shot at the heavyweight title because you were a good amateur. You go out and prove yourself as a pro and earn a shot at the title.