[Photo] Is Manny Pacquiao back on the juice?

Again, Roach simply stated that he didn't know what was in the shakes, wasn't answered when asked, and that Ariza is shady. BTW, this was after Ariza kicked him in the chest.

Nothing along on those lines suggest what you keep lying about.

 

Let's have a serious conversation. If you can't see the difference I don't know what to tell you. You add to the fact that has he moved up in weight he kept his speed and power, and you add the fact tha his own coach said he was using illegal substances. Bro, just admit at the very least that its likely Pac is or was on the juice.

2003

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2008

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2015

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I wonder when Pac will stop ducking Paulie.

 

You don't really do serious conversations IsaL, because the second you do and things go badly for you, as they often have in these back and forths between us, you disappear. But I'll bite one more time: What I see is a man who has ALWAYS had a disproportionately big head. The picture PBC has shown in the hype-up for the Spence-now-Ugas fight is particularly disturbing; a half-starved kid with a bowling ball on his shoulders. That's not something that goes away, ever. Citing "big head" as a reason for peds against someone who has ALWAYS HAD A BIG HEAD is just not going to cut the mustard. Could he be using steroids or HGH that causes thicker bones in the skull? Sure, but I don't see how that is any likelier an explanation than, "kid with disproportionately big head grew bigger, disproportionately big head remained disproportionately big."

As he started to do this thing called "eating" he was able to keep his power and speed as he moved up and went through a sudden growth spurt, yes his speed and power were retained up to lightweight. Then a funny thing happened...he moved past lightweight and his power went down. As he got older, he got (for him) noticeably slower. That happens to a lot of boxers. They get too big for their weight class, move up, keep their speed and power, move up again, keep their speed and power, move up, and finally hit a wall where their power finally fails them and they slow down. Given that pudgy Canelo who was never considered a particularly devestating puncher at junior middleweight suddenly became a one-shot murder machine all the way up to light heavyweight and you maintain his innocence given PED usage, I would think you would be more cognizant of the fact that some people are just 'different'.

As for Freddy Roach, I'm unfamiliar with what he allegedly admitted to unless you are addressing him not knowing what was in whats-his-face's shakes, but Roach says **** about people he doesn't like all the time. The man thought Ben Askren would beat the crap out of Jake Paul because of how he looked in Roach's Wild Card gym. Unless he is specifically training someone in regards to boxing, I don't put any stock in what Roach says. It's like going to someone's ex after a bad break-up for a character reference.

 

Look how small and skinny Pac was compared to Barrera when he moved up in weight and destroyed him. But yea his head was huge.

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What about his head size?

 

At least 43% of his body weight.

 

Paulie must beat Lobov first.

 

Ummm ... Justin Fortune was a known PED user at wildcard gym. Roach didn't like him. He's been around Pac forever. Don't forget Ariza.

 

Bro, I literally posted three videos that span from 2003-2015 and you can see how his head has gotten considerably bigger through the years.

Pacquiao kept his same speed and power as he moved up. He possibly only got slower with age, but when he was fighting Cotto, Clottey, and Margarito he still had the same speed.

KO power like Canelo comes from mostly from technique not brute force. Canelo has improved considerably and places his punches much better than his JrMW days. He went from being a monotone puncher to a fighter who throws punches at different speeds and ranges.

Even with that, I don't deny that its a good possibility that many of the fighters I like may have used PEDs. JMM may have been roided against Pac, which I don't blame him because it was likely that Pac is a long time juicer, and always had the judges in his pocket against JMM.

The difference between us is that I can accept that JMM, Mayweather, Canelo and many top fighters I like have used PEDs, while much circumstantial evidence suggests that Pac is a PED abuser, but you're in complete and total denial of that possibility.

 

grasping for straw???

 

Pac is what a real champion looks like at 42 he doesnt look like a minature wolf man with hair & beard plugs lol

 

So's your head a giveaway just a big empty space

 

Along with the rest of his body. You realize ALL of someone gets bigger as they get bigger, yes?

Until a shot Lucas Matthysse, Pac's last stoppage was against Cotto. In the 12 round. After a sustained beating. That's nine years and 17 opponents. That is not 'keeping the same speed and power'.

Yes, a perfectly valid and reasonable explanation. Another perfectly reasonable and valid explanation is that a man suspended for taking illegal substances, and comes from a stable that has a problem of its fighters taking illegal substances...took illegal substances. See how that works? Really annoying speculation based on hearsay and being a smarmy dip****.

Also, Pacquiao hasn't been doing any precise punching in his career? The Hatton knockout was all about precision!

You absolutely, 100% HAVE denied it; it has been the source of endless tired arguments where you, Joker, and 2JJM hijack threads to rehash mind-numbingly dumb debates. Also, JMM is a man who claims he is undefeated even against Mayweather, so I don't put any stock in, "the judges were against him". The fights were razor close, which means thinking Pacquiao won them isn't some great robbery. Also, very adult behavior from you, "Guy A MIGHT be doing it, so it's a-okay that guy B probably did do it!"

You have not accepted it at all, I will not even entertain this fantasy. Even if you did accept it - which you haven't - you would be forced to on the grounds of there being a plethora of damning circumstantial and even actual evidence against your favorites. Your arguments against Pacquiao are:

1) Man who has always had a big head has a big head, and HGH can also make your head big.
2.) Roach is a crotchety old man who says crotchety old man stuff.
3.) Magic shakes
4.) Moved up weight and didn't keep his speed or power, but I'll say he did over and over and hope no one actually checks the records.

Nothing actually compelling; no hidden elevated T/E ratios, no failed drug tests (including VADA, whom I believe everyone here accepts to as close to a gold standard as drug-testing gets), no TUEs weeks after a fight, nothing. Just an insistence that he MUST have done something because a significant part of his career's success has been built off of victories you think he didn't deserve against your favorites. You don't even entertain the idea that he is clean. That's some all-time petty BS.

Now, here's some actual difference between me and you.

If it came out that Pacquiao was in fact a drug-cheat and had been cheating all this time, I'd be disappointed in him. I would then probably accept the fact that his amazing career will always be tainted, then admit I shouldn't have been surprised. It is unbelievable what he has done, so that should have been my first clue that something that is too good to be true probably is. I would have to look at each and every win and wonder, "did he have an unfair advantage here?" and it would gut me because one of my favorite fighters and a significant reason I became a boxing fan would be proven a fake and a fraud.

Yet until he gets popped like RJJ did, I will choose to believe an athlete that has been VADA tested (in a day and age where they are able to detect the remains of drugs you haven't taken in over a decade) repeatedly and never had any reported shenanigans such as "tested and retested until clean one found" is, in fact, a clean fighter. The way I believe Canelo is probably a clean fighter right now, as super-middleweight seems his natural division and if memory serves what he was taking was stuff to help him burn off weight, and when forced to work tires way too easily in the middle rounds (you'd think he'd be able to get the good PEDs that help with stamina if he was still taking).

So here it is, IsaL. You want to prove that, "hey, I'll admit that maybe my favorites might be on something?" Prove it then. From now on, when people make fun of Canelo with "Clenelo" or "Canelo on that juice again" or "cycling it off"...let it go. Just let it go. After all, you've just admitted that Canelo could be using, right? Let it go, don't reflexively defend him, or try and bring up someone else's favorite and try some boring 'tit-for-tat' argument that we've done to death a thousand times before. "But JOKER!" JOKER is a damn troll; block him and move on. Just let it go, and try and talk the simple boxing of Canelo vs. [X]. Hey, maybe even participate in other boxing threads that have nothing to do with Canelo. Lot of good fights on tonight, will we see you in an actual RBR? Hope so; those threads are always more fun when there is more people.

Let it go, stop being such an insufferable twat, and come watch boxing with everyone and have fun.

 

Or a late developer and going through puberty lol