Do you consider Ray Leonard among the 20 Greatest fighters of all-time ?

Guys who have to be above him...

Langford
Louis
Ali
Charles
Moore
Fitzsimmons
Greb
Monzon
Robinson
Griffith
Duran
Canzoneri
Ross
Gans
Benny Leonard
Pep
Armstrong

After that it's about personal perception.

 

You'd choose Burley over Leonard? Interesting, I think Burley would fight a fight that plays into Leonard's hands, much the way Benitez did. Unlike Hagler, Hearns, and Duran where he had to switch his style up (big bonus points for Leonard for showing this ability against such high level competition), Leonard got to fight his fight against a guy like Benitez, and turned in his most impressive performance.

Do you think Burley would imply a different style?

 

Does he? :huh

 

I disagree.

Longevity is a telling stat and it will usually seperate great fighters from good fighters, but Leonard is the exception. It shouldn't be understated just how impressive early wins in his career against all-time greats Benitez and Hearns was. Neither fighter had previously been defeated or stopped, and Leonard, not even know as a puncher, was stopping his hardest opposition. The loss to Duran just works in his favour, it shown his ability to adapt in their second bout where for the most part it wasn't even competitive. The hagler fight solidifed his position amongst the greatest fighters of all time. He was rusty, past his best, outside of his natural weight, and he beat one of the greatest middleweights ever....at middleweight. Regardless of whether you think he won the fight, it was an accomplishment to see that 12th round.

I'm of the opinion that the greatest era in Boxing was the 80s, and Leonard defeated 4 of the best of that era. He is top 10 for me if based purely on technical ability, overcoming adversity, and his top 4 wins. :good

 

top 20 is ok. but i have a problem with him being in the top 10 ahead of greats with longer careers. his prime was too short and that comeback he made in the late 80's was a JOKE.

I would have to rank Hearns, Hagler and Duran ahead of him even though I consider him to be the most talented. He beat a prime Hearns once and there are many doubts about that victory. he beat a prime benitez who was a ATG (great win) but Hagler was well past it when leonard fought him and he never beat a Duran anywhere near close to his best. that no mas was a joke. he rematched duran at the right time (ray has even said that himself)

PLEASE DON'T BRING UP THE JOKE ABOUT HIM BEING A 5 WEIGHT WORLD CHAMPION. THATS A ****ING SICK JOKE. how can a boxer be light heavyweight champion when you haven't even fought at the weight

if he'd of beat one of his great adversaries a couple of times while in there prime, his case for a top 10 place would be really strengthened.

 

Different to Benitez.

By saying he would fight a very careful fight I assume you'd have him fighting a style similar to that, which is what Leonard excelled against, so I don't see Burley doing as well as you.

As far as Hearns, I don't get it. Leonard had the height and reach advantage to my knowledge, and from what I've seen, didn't have the speed, at least not in combination, that Leonard did.

 

I can do that without a problem.

 

I'm sure I speak for everyone here when I say I cannot wait for this list

 

Yes but he had help from the judges in two of them. And as ugly as it was I can't discount the Norris fight because it upsets me to think about it. After all, he was the 3-1 fave. Top 100 somewhere but we dont know for sure where

 

:rofl :rofl

Come on, let's see your list Rooster.

 

First off, you can see the arguments for Joe Louis above Ray Leonard so I have no motive to argue that case further.
You said I should name 20. Louis features in my sample 20. I personally have no reservations about Joe Louis above Ray Leonard.

On Monzon, the same dominance argument applies. You can say Leonard has a better middleweight win than Monzon, maybe so, (but it's also a disputed win over a fading star, and that's how it'd be described if something similar to it featured among Monzon's resume)
A flipside of course is that Leonard lost to smaller Duran at his "OWN weight".

Charley Burley was avoided, forced to fight bigger men almsot his entire career, multiple times, fighters in their primes. Leonard's moving up the weights for one or two fights doesn't impress as much. Again, it's a higher level of activity (against very good opposition) that puts Burley up there.

Kid Chocolate was a supreme talent. If indeed the Battalino and Canzoneri decisions were bad (as I've been led to believe), then he was robbed out of holding the featherweight, junior-lightweight and lightweight and junior-welter titles simultaneously at his peak ! I consider Canzoneri a pound-for-pound great, as you can see, and I have no hesitation in putting Chocolate among the pound-for-pound greats. He was a master.