lol! Frazier`s head movement was far better than Ruiz`s Arreola would miss all over the place and get countered with hooks all night, Ali would have been far too fast for Arreola, there is no heavyweight active today with Ali`s speed, fighters were quicker back then, even though boxing is improving vastly from the state it was in 5-10 years ago.
Most cruisers are faster than fat 250 lbs heavies yes but cruisers from 60 years ago were not magically faster than more athletic fast cruisers today. According to Andre Ward on a WBO broadcast, Fury's reactions have been measured as on a par with Ali's, absurd considering that Fury has 6 inches of height and 60 lbs of weight on Ali. A fast elite cruiser like Cunningham, Haye or Usyk is logically going to be even faster; Ali looks especially fast compared to his carthorse plodder opponents. Frazier was genetically limited to one style: he'd bob and weave into a man who is 50 lbs heavier, much taller and rangier, much stronger, much more durable and a much bigger puncher with modern conditioning and PED advantages and get mowed down in a couple of rounds, as he was against so-called "big George". 6'3, 220 lbs Foreman's punching power is objectively not huge by today's standards as it was in the 70's, he'd just be another big puncher today. The likes of Wlad and Wilder are levels above.
Ruiz is a poundshop Stiverne, Ortiz crushed Jennings and Hunter would rather bash up a 38.5 year old, 2 year inactive, non-punching career cruiser nobody than take on dangerous contenders or champions. Wilder has fought the best of his era twice and is scheduled to fight him a third time. Who did Bowe fight beyond pumped-up cruiser Holyfield? His resume is far more shallow than Wilder's and he openly ducked Lewis, yet he apparently "fought the best of his era". But he is still a top 2 all-time American HW along with Wilder due to his physicality, technical skills and mentality in the ring. There's a reason why we don't see chinny, overweight, 5'10 cruisers like Frazier at the top of the HW division anymore (aside from the fact that he was visually impaired in one eye and wouldn't be allowed to box professionally today) and it's because the old style "heavyweights" are obsolete, Frazier's success is a refutation of the 70's.
'Wilder has fought the best of his era twice', got gifted a draw against a cherry picked, grossly out of condition, inactive, former 400lber and then got crushed and humiliated by the same guy in the rematch. A guy who has yet to defend a title, is yet to defeat the other two HW's who can lay claim to being the best of this era in AJ and Usyk and yes, I include Usyk as he is the unified, undisputed CW champion coming up and could still make huge waves in the HW division. Wilder has only faced one elite level HW (which is still open to debate given Fury's rather thin resume, inactivity and lack of defenses) and didn't fair to well. Wilder had the chance to fight WK, Povetkin, Joshua and any number of genuine top 10 fighters and instead went for the likes of Szpilka (former football hooligan washed in 2 by Chisora) ,a washed Areolla, Washington, Duhaupas, Molina, Stiverne 2 who was beyond shot, a totally unnecessary and unearnt rematch with Ortizn't, Breazeale and the cherry pick that went wrong with Tyson and you have the temerity to state Wilder as being the joint best US HW of all time! GTFOH with that complete and utter bollocks! Bowe would have made Wilder his little *****, Mike Tyson would have had Wilder shitting his pants during the ring walk, Ali would have had Wilder swinging and missing all night before counter punching his ass to the canvas and Foreman would have folded Wilder in half with his body punching. Holmes would have jabbed Wilders face into mince meat. Your total lack of respect of ATG HW's who have proven their mettle over far longer and more distinguished careers against fellow ATG's is frankly embarrassing and more than a little ignorant.
The examples you use to bolster your opinion are of Ali's opponents years after they fought Ali, years after their prime. I can see why you do that as Wilder has only fought part-timers, shot fighters, and cherry picks. A young Wilder would've floundered in the 60's and 70's. No way he could've been protected for his first 40 fights or so. I doubt he would've ever had a main event in that era. He would've been getting ko'd at a lower level. Wouldn't have made the Olympics back then either.
Seriously? You couldn`t see Ali`s fast combos during his first title reign? Don`t think AJ`s quite as quick as Ali!
You're an overly emotional hypocrite in disrespecting modern genuine heavyweights while you accuse me of disrespecting historical cruiser/LHW-equivilants. The direction of travel over time in all sports is improvement but the tendency on these forums is to worship has-been or deceased fighters who are objectively far inferior in terms of ability. If a half-blind, 5'10 overweight cruiser/LHW like Frazier (with an awful HW chin and punching power to boot: his KO ratio vs even the 215+ carthorses of his era was pathetic, almost a bad as Ali's) could be competitive today then why has the division between dominated by 6'5+ SHW's since the 90's? The most that 70's sized heavyweights can hope for is the occasional upset and it's been this way for 30 years. Even the smallest of heavyweight contenders in Usyk would have been a very big heavyweight back in the 70's and totally unique as there were no southpaws or Soviet bloc fighters among them in that limited era. Ali actually gets credit for LOSING to absurdly overrated fighters like Frazier and Norton because this is taken as evidence that they were really good! If Ali had just beaten his opposition (as Holmes or the Klitschko's did for the most part) then no one would have really rated them, so Ali would have been rated lower despite being a better fighter than he actually was. If title defences matter a lot then Wilder has 10 of them against real 215+ lbs heavyweights (more than Tyson, Lewis and Vitali) to AJ's 6 (ended by a loss to a 25-1 pudding) if genuine ATG wins matter a lot then Fury has two of them and Tyson/Holyfield/Bowe/Vitali/Wlad/AJ have zero. Usyk has not established himself as one of the best HW's of this era yet; until he beats AJ he's just a contender. Usyk has been pursuing the WBO route to AJ since late 2018/early 2019 and Hearn has been steering AJ away from him ever since: why do you think they pursued mandatories with Miller and grandpa Pulev? It was to age Usyk out and avoid him, just as they had previously avoided Ortiz by sticking him on the AJ-Molina undercard against Allen. AJ cherry-picked retired defeated Wlad and Povetkin on their last legs at home for name value and Hearn-J avoided Wilder by refusing to travel to America just as much as Wilder avoided AJ by refusing to travel to Britain. But ducking is hardly new: Foreman admitted to ducking Quarry and Shavers in the 70's, at least he was honest. Wilder's title fights were no worse than frozen Martin, common opponents Breazeale and Molina, old Takam, hypejob Parker, pudding Ruiz x2 (who went life and death with a retired, far older and more worn version of Arreola than the one Wilder dominated) and grandpa Pulev. Szpilka had beaten Adamek and went on to beat Wach, Duhaupas had beaten Charr and went on to KO Helenius in 6, Washington KO'd Forrest in 2 and went on to KO Helenius in 8. Wilder KO'd an old and worn Stiverne in 1 round, yet Joyce went over 5 rounds with a clearly inferior, more obese version of Stiverne years later. Ortiz x2 is at least on a par with the version of Povetkin that AJ fought plus AJ's 3rd best win (whoever that is) and Stiverne is much better than Ruiz, who AJ got destroyed by. Fury x2/x3 makes it no contest as far as quality of opponents faced. Who did Bowe ever beat aside from pumped-up cruiser and LHW Moorer-victim Holyfield? Seeing as Bowe blatantly ducked Lewis, it's absurd to consider him above long-reining champ Wilder who fought Fury multiple times. Wilder has failed at GOAT level so far barring the controversial draw at home but that is to be expected; so would any other fighter in history. If cruiser featherfists Jimmy Young and Ali can drop Foreman, Wilder decapitates him, if Snipes and other light punchers can drop Holmes heavily, Wilder destroys him, if LHW Cooper and small cruiser featherfist Doug Jones can drop Ali (and in Cooper's case all but KO him) then Wilder might actually kill him. In terms of length, explosive power and speed, Wilder is far beyond anything that they could even conceive of before the late 80's/early 90's at minimum.
Fury isn`t as good a finisher as Holy, his body mechanics are poor, Holy was a better, more consistent combo puncher.
I don’t know how anyone has the time or the energy to type such long posts which are 50% fabrication and 50% contradiction.
I agree that Frazier and also Ali from end of 70 ies had been not considered to fight fight in the ring Today. I agree. You still are calling Frazier as overweight while sorry, the likes of Ortiz, Whyte, Chisora even in their prime might dream to have his gas tank. Damn, and this is like with Lewis fans, claiming that Lewis when fought vs Vitali was almost obese, not fit to fight with late replacement away corner B side lad in " poor " Vitali. Lewis fanatics and Klits haters in forums. While I might be more fair: I think Frazier had better gas tank than prime Klits and Usyk. LOL. This is not claim that he might had beat prime best shape Usyk, this is just about gas tank here, guys.
