Stiverne top 10? My ass. Or at least not top 10 by todays standards. He had to beat the mighty Chis Arreola to get his title! And I don't consider beating the same opponent twice as two different fighters. Could Wilder beat Ortiz 10 times and say he's beaten 10 top 10 opponents? Wilder has only beaten 1 top 10 fighter.
The Ring move in "mysterious" ways... When Buster Douglas beat Tyson and then lost to Holyfield they ranked Holy @1 and Tyson @2. Then see how they dealt with Lewis, when Bowe @1 ducked Lewis @2 then lost to Holyfield@3: @1 Holyfield @2 Bowe @3 Lewis Lewis loses to Rahman then beats him in the rematch. They elevated Lewis to Ring Champion in the aftermath. When Vitali beat Sanders who had beaten Wlad they made Vitali ring champion. So, it seems very strange that they dropped Joshua from being clear @1 to @3 for losing to and then beating Ruiz Jr. in the rematch. Especially strange when you consider they ranked Fury above Wilder because they didn't agree with the official "draw" Which means they believed Wilder lost to the unranked, out of shape Fury. The only conclusion I've been able to draw is that perhaps they have their favourites, or at least their American readership do
Maybe you guys wouldn't be so confused if you had your facts straight. Lennox Lewis was the Ring/World Champion when he defended against the Ring's #9 rated Hasim Rahman. When Lewis lost to Rahman, Hasim became the Ring/World Champion. When Lewis knocked out Rahman, Lewis regained the World title. Nobody "decided to elevate Lewis afterward" to World Champion. He knocked out the World Champion to regain the crown. You beat the World Champion, you become the World Champion. Got it? It's very simple stuff. Now here is where this may confuse you. When there is no longer a WORLD champion, like the World Champion retires, there isn't a new WORLD Champion until the two best fighters compete for it. Vitali Klitschko was named the new World Champion when Lewis retired because he was rated #1 by Ring and Corrie Sanders was rated #2 by Ring and they fought and Vitali stopped him. But he only made one defense and Vitali retired for years. When Anthony Joshua fought Wlad Klitschko, Tyson Fury was still the Ring/World Champion, Wlad was rated #1, Wilder was #2 ... and Joshua was rated down at #5. The Ring didn't even rank Charles Martin or Eric Molina (who had already been KOed by Arreola and Wilder) in the top 10 when Joshua beat them, even though they were for the paper IBF belt stripped from Fury. And even if they didn't still have Fury as World Champ, a #1 vs. #5 doesn't restart anything. When the now no longer retired #1 Ring contender Fury fought the #2 Ring contender Wilder in their rematch, and Fury won, Fury became the Ring Champion again. When there is no World Champion, the winner of #1 vs. #2 restarts it. They've been doing that forever. Patterson vs. Moore. Sharkey vs. Schmeling. Frazier vs. Ellis. And if you are mad the #4 rated Joshua didn't move back to the #1 contender spot after beating #3 Ruiz, get mad at Joshua. Everyone has fat, unranked, obese Andy Ruiz-type opponents on their records, but they don't all get dropped four times, spit out their moutpieces and quit against them. That was A BAD loss to an unranked LATE SUB. And it cost Joshua (at least in the Ring ratings it did). Hope that clears things up for some of you new guys. It really isn't very complicated. Fury is the World Champ now. Whoever knocks him off becomes the NEW World Champ.
You really do seem to use Ring magazine as your bible Maybe in the 90s id take more seriously but these days they are not much different from an Org Ratings to suit themselves Its a real shame tbh
I don't use Ring magazine as my "bible" at all. I think the first ratings I posted in this thread were WBC ratings. I posted them to show all the WBC contenders Wilder defended against as WBC Champ. Then people started citing RING ratings, so I posted Ring Ratings. Now people don't want to talk about Ring ratings. Talk about any ratings you like. But when people say in "their" ratings and who "they" think should've been rated where ... that isn't relevent to anything. "They" aren't a recognized ratings body or sanctioning organization. So "their" ratings don't really have a say in anything.
Depends on the thread and who is citing which ratings. If it's a thread about the 30s, 40s and 50s, I usually cite the National Boxing Association ratings, since they held all the sway back then.
Tell you what, find me something that says Rahman was the Ring champion and I'll concede. But, I suspect you are going to find that (as I mentioned) Lewis was awarded the belt after that 2001 fight. To be specific in 2002, prior to the Tyson fight.
Stiverne was in everyones top 10. Sorry. In your scenario, if Ortiz was ranked in the top 10 all 10 times, then yes, he would have beaten 10 fighters in the top 10. Wilder has beaten three opponents who were consensus top 10 HWs. In every media and fan ranking.
No, he's beaten 1 or 2 at the most. You cannot fight the same person more than once and try and pass it off as if it's as valid as fighting 10 separate opponents. The only exception I'd say is if the same person became a mandatory again in a huge fight. Wilder fighting Ortiz again was not a mandatory, Wilder just chose him. You can argue Wilder has had 3 top 10 fights, but that doesn't mean you count them as 3 separate opponents. And again, the idea that either of these two are TOP 10 is debate. Consider Stiverene's best win was against Chris ****ing Arreola and Ortiz' best win was against Christian Hammer.... I have Ortiz 10th, and that's only because everyone below hasn't fought anyone worth a **** and won. Not all top 10 fights are the same, you have to look deeper into a record. Comparing Ortiz or Stiverene to any of Joshua's best wins is laughable.
So, Wilder fights Tyson Fury and Luis Ortiz FIVE TIMES ... and that only counts as TWO? Does he get to pick which TWO fights count and which THREE he's going to throw out? This is beyond pathetic. You need to take a long break from bashing Wilder because you sound like a complete MORON. Five fights against world class fighters are FIVE fights. Not two. Manny and Marquez fought four times. That counts as FOUR fights. Not ONE. Or does each get to pick which ONE fight counts? Go sit the **** down. Please. When Sugar Ray Robinson fought Jake Lamotta SIX TIMES it counted as SIX fights, not one. When Frazier and Ali fought THREE times and Foreman TWICE it counted as FIVE FIGHTS, not two. The Wilder bashing has been elevated to the lobotomy stage. If you have to PRETEND guys who are rated aren't (because that's not where you would rank them) and five fights now equal two ... it's over. You lose. Go to bed or take a walk or spend some time off line.
We were talking about wins you ****ing pleb. Not much use Wilder bragging about fighting Fury if he ****ing lost. Perhaps you should consider reading what I ****ing said. And comparing Wilder's wins over the likes of Stiverne and Ortiz to any of those other fighters is ridiculously stupid. Maybe you should try taking your own advice, and also develop a reasonable IQ. Wilder deserves every bit of bashing her gets because he's a fool with a ridiculous record and the most absurd person to ever be considered a champion.
With all due respect, that OP might be very insightful and well put together but is more words than I'm willing to devote to reading on the subject of Deontay Wilder in one sitting. ..and yes, I'm known for making some rather verbose threads myself. But like, on interesting stuff.
After Lewis beat Holyfield in 1999, the Ring covers were: Lennox Lewis Undisputed (wearing the Ring belt) June 2000 https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/zU8AAOSwLB5epPLy/s-l1600.jpg Lennox Lewis Is He an All Time Great (wearing the Ring belt) September 2000 https://s.ecrater.com/stores/441275/5dcbace97921d_441275b.jpg SHUT OFF YOUR COMPUTER AND GO OUTSIDE. You are done with this topic.
You utter clown. hahahaha Ring started awarding championship belts in April 2002 Anyway let's go through what you wrote: You've mistaken Lewis ceremonial undisputed belt (received in June 2000) with the Ring Championship (received in April 2002). So that is actually in line with what I said, and makes what you said wrong (unsurprisingly) 1-0 to me File:LON belt 2002Apr.jpg - BoxRec You might be the one who is confused. For 2003, Ring magazine had Sanders ranked @3 Chris Byrd was @2. So if a 12 month inactive Sanders was elevated @2 a week before the fight, that only reinforces my point that their rankings are suspect. Because a year later Sanders was @9 and Byrd was @1 with Vitali as Champion. So you haven't countered what I said in the slightest. 2-0 to me that's quite a ramble, completely irrelevant to what I was talking about... 3-0 I already showed why it wasn't in line with what they did. I realise it's difficult for you. But no need to bring emotions into it. Another fail. 4-0 Fury is the Ring champion. He isn't the world champion. When he gets round to beating Joshua (which I think he will) he will become world champion. Not until then. And if Wilder pulls it out the bag in October, Joshua will still be there holding 3 of the 4 belts. 5-0 You are going on ignore now. You spout utter garbage at the best of times.
