66 years ago: Rocco Francis "Brockton Rock" Marchegiano vs. Archibald Lee "The Old Mongoose" Wright

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Sep 21, 2021.



  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

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    ATG vs. ATG, in a packed Yankee Stadium. It doesn't get any more "classic" in terms of atmosphere...then, you watch the fight itself. A classic indeed, with all the fixings. The combatants made perfect foils to each other differing in age, style, and demeanor. They each tasted canvas. One scored the KO and then rode off into the sunset to not just cement his legacy but enshrine himself as legend.

    The couple of long-dithering conspiracies - namely, that Moore went into the proverbial tank; or his own claim that referee Harry Kessler gave Marciano a friendly slow count - are bunkum. Thoroughly disproven by now, and not deserving of another word.

    Absolutely crazy in hindsight that, of the pair of them, you'd expect the guy that was several years the senior man at 38 - or possibly 41, depending on which birth report you believe - coming up from light heavyweight only to be violently thwarted in a HW championship gambit would be the one to never again have fought afterward. Instead, mystifyingly, upon becoming the forty-ninth in that storied 49-0 (and the forty-third of 43 kayos), Archie would then go 37-4-2 in the remainder of his career.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
  2. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The Old Mongoose retired before I was born, but he’s on the short list of guys I most wish I could have seen live, along with Roberto Duran, Ray Leonard and Thomas Hearns.
     
  3. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

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    Note: there was a hasty mental arithmetic slip-up on my part in the OP, slightly overcredited Moore in his post-'55 run. Even so, 37-4-2 is a hell of a thing for someone to crank out past the age of 38 (let alone 41 possibly), after getting Blockbustered no less.
     
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  4. Shay Sonya

    Shay Sonya The REAL Wonder Woman! Full Member

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    And then came
    This content is protected
     
  5. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    More I watch that fight more suspicious it looks. Even his manager thought Archie threw the fight (Moore denied it). I wouldn’t think Archie would but the knock down looks fishy for sure
     
  6. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I see nothing suspicious about this fight.
    My takeaway is that Moore was outboxing Marciano, & if it was unusual that he won, especially considering all the punches he was missing & the old Mongoose was slipping. Had he had not gone into extreme overdrive he would have been outpointed.

    But all credit to Rocky for throwing continual power punches-nothing shocking about non-stop power punches, even when not landing flush, taking this toll on anyone, certainly an opponent a modern day LHW size in the ring.

    You can make an excellent argument that Moore was greater, given all he accomplished.
    If you consider how long he SHOULD have had the title/a LHW shot, & how successful he was forever.
    If Rocky had been given the one loss he deserved against a likely handcuffed Ted Lowry, we would view him differently. Also retiring in your early 30's makes it easier to appear unblemished.

    And he was fortunate that ALL the best fighters he faced (Louis was too far past his prime to count)-Moore-Charles & Walcott-had a favorable boxer style for him! And none were very large at all.
    NO near excellent sluggers were encountered-although this was not his fault.
    Someone like fellow Paisano Carmine Vingo? He was a stringbean & just barely out of his teens.

    Both great fighters, & Moore an educated, altruistic person to boot.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
  7. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Marciano v Moore wasn’t suspicious. Was referring to Moore v Patterson
     
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  8. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 I’m become seeker of milk Full Member

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    Rocky Marcinao really was Charley Goldman's gem.
     
  9. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

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    The latter is often used to justify claims about the former. As in, establishing that Archie "had that in him".

    I see nothing untoward in the footage. If you're paying attention, Patterson had the fight won about twenty seconds before the first knockdown was even scored. Look at the pair of snug liver-adjacent left hooks that he stuffs in, at 16:34 and 16:40 (just before slipping and falling down himself) in the video above. Moore visibly compresses and never fully recovered from those body shots, leaving him open to Floyd's quasi-gazelle (more of a quick dash-in sliding-step left hook on Moore's temple) which of course dropped him. In the normal course of things you'd expect Moore to clock and slip/parry or roll with a shot like that but he was still paralyzed by those body hooks (with his body language wooden, movement stilted, and his jab reduced to a wet noodle), and so it caught him unresisted. The second knockdown is a non-factor as the first had scrambled him and he probably oughtn't have gotten up so fast (and did so purely on instinct). All that was needed was a poke at that point.
     
  10. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It looks like the affects of a temple shot I suppose. It’s just odd that he fell the way he did. And knowing how he gets up from shots wasn’t able to on this occasion.
    It was so odd his trainer screamed at him when everyone left something accusing him of fixing the fight. Considering he never was known to throw a fight I just take it as an off night
     
  11. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I dunno if it was an off night, or he was caught in precisely the right places with just the right punch combinations by an extremely fast fellow ATG.
    As could have & at other times did happen to Patterson.
     
  12. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Wasn't D'Amato at odds with the Mafia? (Though I guess that's exactly what a Mob controlled manager would WANT you to think...)

    Who would have been arranging the fix, and to what benefit?

    I was unaware of this suspicion of a fix for Moore-Patterson, and am now curious.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
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  13. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It was in one of his biographies have the book at home I can source it later. He obviously states he didn’t fix it but from watching every Moore fight available I think it looks off and even his own trainers did at the time. I take it as everyone has an off night. Had they met earlier in his career I think Moore wins.
     
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  14. MrHello

    MrHello Active Member Full Member

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    Terrific fight between two terrific fighters.......Truly terrific! Terrific I tell ya!
     
  15. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Kessler started to give Rocky the benefit of a standing count forgetting that standing counts were waved in title fights.Marciano stated he blacked out momentarily, and when he got up he can be seen heading for the ropes anticipating a standing count which Kessler began but did not finish.The count can clearly be heard on the film ,nothing slow about it ,but once Marciano was on his feet Kessler should have gotten the hell out of the way because Rocky was then a legitimate target.Did it affect the fights result? I don't think so,though Moore despised Kessler for the rest of his life.
     
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