Cleveland Williams is better h2h fighter than Bruno. Machen fought both Liston and Williams and said that Williams is a more dangerous H2H fighter than Liston, Dudes got handspeed. I don't care if Bruno fought better oppositions, but the when it came to h2h ability Williams is better than Bruno! Satterfield even said that Williams got a big heart and he hit him with real hard shots and he came back! There's no way Bruno could beat Williams, not even in a million years
1. Extremely debatable and there's not much between them. It would be interesting to see how Cleve went against a 230 pound genuine contender that was also taller with more reach and had good fundamentals. 2. What actually said was - "In a way he's tougher to fight than Liston because he has the speed the other doesn't have. You can't walk around Cleveland like you can Liston." -Eddie Machen. That by no means ever translates to what you claimed he said. 3. In your opinion. Many will agree but a similar amount will disagree. 4. Satterfield at a weight of 176 1/2 pounds knocked Cleve out in 3 rounds and it took almost a minute to bring him too, sub or not. 5. Pure craziness. Bruno's a 230 pound heavyweight with a ton of reach and height who had immense power in both hands and good fundamentals. Cleveland never beat such a guy in his life. It's entirely possible he could but to make out it's a completely forgone conclusion is gold to his detractors, absolute gold. Your opinion would hold zero relevance after such a statement. I would not be surprised if the betting line favored Bruno.
Yes Satterfield did knock him out but he took real shots to bring him down. He had a better chin than most credit him, he took an assault from Liston and went up. Like Machen said he had real good handspeed, just imagine fighting a guy who punch as hard as liston (arguably harder) but has superior speed. He's also good at parrying jabs but doesn't do well with fast feet boxers. Williams can trade punches stand to toe with toe with Liston! Man he took some great shots! Yeah Bruno is a big guy and had long reach so what? Williams put up a good effort with both fight with a Prime Liston, knocked out iron chin Ernie Terrell (arguably won the 2nd), knocked out Sonny Banks, defeated Billy Daniels, Alex Miteff, Young Jack Johnson, etc. Bruno freeze against Tyson despite having the tools to beat him but did Williams freezed against Liston? He use every given tools and talents to win over Liston but still failed. Man, I hate watching boxers showed so much effort but still lost the fight.
Satterfield was still basically a light heavyweight tho he certainly punched miles above his weight. Did Machen really say he had real good handspeed? He could well have been talking about footspeed? I wouldn't say Bruno froze against Tyson the first time, he was only the second guy to make him take pause and lasted longer than many. How do you think Cleve would have went against Tyson? It's quite debatable who would win between Bruno and Williams and you can carve that in stone. It's common sense really.
This content is protected Ali thinks highly of him. He took his fight pretty seriously. He said that Williams has handspeed, and we don't need Machen say he has good handspeed, we have footage, we can watch him, did you not see Williams threw 5 power hooks using the same hand 1.28 seconds?
"He has the speed that other doesn't have" - eddie machen Are you f*cking kidding me?? Do you not see that? Satterfield was still knocking a lot of people even at heavyweight.
How did Ali thinking highly of him translate in the ring? Ali said Cleve broke Sonny's jaw which simply isn't true. He's also a long way off about his record assuming this was after they had signed to fight. The big question for you to unlock is why was Ali speaking so highly of Cleve when it was rare to non existent previously? I have no idea what this is in response to or aiming to achieve.
Ah you didn't quote properly. Also when you quote a fighter in such context do it properly so as not to be purposely misleading. Now the full quote is below. He may well be including handspeed but in the very next sentence he talks about not being able to walk around him like you can Liston which implies footspeed. It's somewhat murky if he was talking handspeed as well so no i'm not ****ing kidding you. "In a way he's tougher to fight than Liston because he has the speed the other doesn't have. You can't walk around Cleveland like you can Liston." -Eddie Machen
