Manila Ali vs 92’ Bowe

Ali is at Heavyweight.

 

Once again.....That's your opinion

 

He still had the jab and the legs to befuddle Bowe. Bowe is horribly overrated. The dude had potential, but he never pulled it together. He also was too tough for his own good. Most men would've crumbled against Golota.

I just can't see Ali fighting Bowe like he fought Frazier. And I cannot see Bowe negotiating Ali's jab and movement. I am sure he lands big at times since Ali had lost most of his athleticism. But Lord knows he's not putting Ali away... unless he resorts to nut shots. That worked really well against Pierre Coetzer.

OK, so 50-50 shot. If the ref allows Bowe to foul, especially nut-shots, Bowe could win this. Clean fight: Ali UD.

 

I agree with QTD. Ali was nothing if not specifically strategised/purposed in varying degrees from one opponent to another. Ali fought the way he did in Manila because he was fighting Joe Frazier.

Add to that Ali incorrectly believing he could put Joe out in about 5 rounds and firing early power shots for all he was worth. Ali oversighted the power of Joe’s hatred of him and associated intense preparation and ever present heart.

Further add to the mix yet again the crazy heat/humidity in Manila unless that’s part of the hypothetical which Bowe has to perform and suffer under also. Ali was a busy fighter in 75 fighting almost exactly at 224 lb each time out. His highest possible, while still somewhat viable, weight.

Bowe was certainly good enough to induce a personalised strategy and prep on Ali’s part. Not sure what nickname Ali would bestow upon him though. I think Ali is still good enough to nick the points here but do not dismiss out of hand a possible equal and opposite points victory for Bowe.

 

This begs the question what sort of strategy this version of Ali could use?

He could only dance in very short spurts, his legs were pretty much gone by this point.

The days when he could use his fancy cobra like head movement to dodge and then lash out with nasty counters were long gone.

Rope a dope certainly wouldn't work. Manilla was after Zaire and Futch would be too smart to let Bowe simply pound away.

What other options does Ali have if he isn't going to go toe to toe like he did against Frazier? Ali could adapt and come up with different strategies, true, but by the late 70's his decline in athleticism meant that those options became more and more limited as his style very much relied on his athleticism. He ended up relying on his toughness and sheer experience, ring generalship as he got older and that is a poor plan against a huge hard hitting talented guy like Bowe.

 

Have you seen the Coetzer and Holyfield II fights? Bowe at his best is over-rated offensively, and even guys who weren't inherently pure-boxers could out-box him. It won't be Ali-Williams II, but Ali is going to make Bowe miss enough to doubt himself. Once Bowe lost his confidence the fight was over for him. That's why he lost the rematch with Holyfield and won the rubbermatch in brutal fashion; it was the weight, but it was also his mindset.

 

What strategy? Well, if I could answer that then I’d be the Greatest, wouldn’t I?. Kidding.

Good question. I guess no one figured Ali would play the rope a dope in Zaire, perfect for Foreman. George was supposed to kill that apparently well depreciated version of Ali also. Ali def played the ropes but utilisation of same is exaggerated. He was spearing Foreman with power shots throughout, including lead right hands that were not forecast. Even staggering Foreman as early as round 3. Ali came in at a dancing weight but modified his accent after calculating he’d be winded before time. Ali focused on wood chopping for power and I think it really showed and his punch in that fight often underrated.

One thing re Bowe, for all his height and reach advantage, I think his style negated those advantages somewhat, he was quite hittable.

I know Ali was depreciating but atop what he still had left in his kit bag, he deserves the reserve for innovative adaption though it’s not so convincing an argument if you can’t define exactly what that adaption would be.

Let me cogitate on that one.

 

This is just awful a very sad fight...

 

75 Ali had diminished speed and reflexes, thus he was too hittable. He did not have the legs to dance and move around anymore, and if he cannot do that, he's toast, since he will never be able to win a battle of trading punches against Bowe

 

Bowe would give a light hitting, smaller guy choosing to slug it out with him every kind of problem you could imagine.

A prime version of Ali, light on his feet and peppering him from range would win, possibly easily.

This version would get stopped, imho.

 

The Ali of 1975 still has enough skill and smarts left to decision a prime Bowe.

Ali's handspeed was still really fast in Manila and his jab would offset much of Riddick's offense. 'Big Daddy' would have his moments,especially with inside work,but Muhammad wins a fairly clear points verdict.

Post 1975,I see prime Bowe winning.

 

You may well be right. Except Manilla was in the mid, not late, '70's.
However Bowe has fairly poor defense. Ali was no inside fighter, but great at tying up & thwarting fighters, even someone as strong as Foreman.
He also collaborated with Frazier to set the HW record of punches, more of which he landed-like in FOTC.

So Bowe takes tons of blows, & unless he can stop Ali, I think he loses a decision.
Ali was never KOed, & unless he is declined further than in '75/Manilla...I think he survives Bowe too.

 

Bowe doesn't need to outbox Ali. If the Ali of manila shows up at ring center looking for a war id favor Bowe to win.

Ali's reflexes had declined. I don't see him being able to stand in front of Bowe and make him miss them counter like did against terrel. I think you're comparing Ali to his younger self. Ali from Manila onwards was fairly hittable as well.

 

I don't disagree Bowe negated some of his height and reach slugging it out. But this doesn't change the fact he was bigger and hit harder. Thus if Ali chooses to go to war at ring center like he did with Frazier, I'd favor Bowe. I don't see it as rocket science. Ali wasn't as good as Holyfield was in a war and Bowe beat him pretty convincingly.

 

Part of what allowed Ali to tie up and wear out Foreman was the fact he retreated to the ropes and Foreman kept rushing him in a straight line with no regard for return fire.

Now I'm not saying Bowe was some polished slickster, but in this fantasy setting were assuming the fight takes place after zaire. Even Lyle knew not to fall for the rope a dope, that trick was only going to work once.

If it becomes an in fight, tying up and wrestling with Bowe is not going to win Ali points. It would just lead to him losing a lopsided decision like Smith vs Tyson.

I do agree that Ali's punch output and high workrate could give Bowe problems, that's a good point. He did have faster hands even in the 70's and could win on sheer volume and accuracy but I wouldn't bet one cent honestly. Bowe is just a better slugger overall with a wider variety of punches. Ali heavily neglected the uppercut and body shots all throughout his career.