Who ranks higher as a heavyweight, Joe Frazier or Mike Tyson?

Tyson made a career out of beating a pretty talented bunch of Ali-impersonators in the 80s.

He'd win at least 1 of 3 against Ali if not get a sweep.

 

Tyson would have lost 2 out of 3, except the order would be reversed. He'd get UD'd by 60's Ali, KTFO by 1971 Ali, and quite possibly beat him in 75.

 

Frazier fought Ali three times over the space of nearly five 5 years.

Frazier wasn't in his prime for all three bouts, was he? Why assume a 'Prime' Tyson is matched against Ali, in all three bouts?

 

Tyson would NOT beat '71 Ali, ever. He dithered with Tony Tucker, looking just the same as he did three years later against Douglas.. but Tucker was pretty heartless, unlike Douglas (in their respective fights vs. mighty Mike). Ali was never heartless.

1.) Frazier
2.) Tyson

 

The Ali who fought the FOTC was still a fantastic fighter, Frazier's long trip to the hospital (plus the fact that he never looked anywhere near that good again) bear that out.

 

Pinklon Thomas fought more like 70s Ali than Tucker did. I hear they had the same trainer too.

 

Joe is heavily reliant on his one win over Ali.

In his reign there was some overmatched fodder 4 of them Terry Daniels, Ziggy, Ramos and Ron Stander....

The light heavy Bob Foster who looking back now stood zero chance.

Jimmy Ellis who Floyd rightfully beat just before. A valid defence IMO.

His best wins here is obviously followed by Ali, Quarry... Then Bonavena (Or Ellis?)

Winning the "title" from Mathis isn't so flash either.

I think Tyson had a better

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run with the title.

 

Fine put Tyson at Frazer's age. He's ( tyson ) is just 31 for third fight, Ali is 33. He ( tyson is 30 ) for the 2nd fight, Ali is 32. At age 30 and 32.For the first fight he ( tyson ) is even younger and Ali is coming off a long layoff. Okay?

 

Tyson's speed, punching power and defense were better than Frazier's. 2 of those 3 are kryptonite for Foreman. I doubt Mike gets disposed of by Foreman and if he did it would be longer than either of Joe's stints with a much more competitive fight.

 

I am not sure what case it is you are trying to make here.

Frazier's Fight of the Century ('71) performance most probably denotes his peak.
It is widely accepted that Tyson's destruction of Spinks ('88) denotes his peak.


So, after what are generally regarded as their respective peak performances:
Frazier wouldn't fight Ali again for three years (early '74), having lost to Foreman in the meantime.
Three years after Spinks ('91), Tyson had been given a good go by Ruddock, having lost to Buster Douglas in the meantime.
Frazier would fight Ali again 21 months later (late '75) for one last hurrah, in what many people describe as the greatest heavyweight bout of all-time.
Tyson would not be around for a few years and then return in '95 to face McNeeley and Mathis Jr, taking his first strap back the following year from Bruno (in Bruno's last fight).

Comparative form tells me that Tyson's best chance is at his peak against FOTC Ali and it's not absolutely inconceivable that Tyson could win. But I've never seen anyone make a strong enough case for a Tyson victory in this scenario. I don't see Tyson beating Ali in '71, as Frazier did.

Less than two years after his ferocious best, Tyson gets KO'd by a high quality journeyman having a good night. Once Tyson's mystique is shattered, he's not the same fighter, as he had been pre-Douglas. Again, it's not inconceivable that this version of Tyson could beat a '74/'75 Ali and one can try to make that case, but I don't see it.

But all this is besides the point. The fact is, Frazier has that elite win and Tyson does not. One can speculate about what Tyson might have or might not have done in another era, but a credible rating of these fighters can only be based on what actually happened.

There's not a lot in it, but Frazier's win over Ali clearly tips the scales in his favor.

 

You're scenario makes a lot of sense. I will say this though. If Tyson doesn't get Joe in the first few rounds, I can see Frazier's indomitable will and determination wearing Tyson down late with Joe recording a late stoppage or close points win..

 

While I do agree Tucker didn't have the most heart and determination, he did enter the fight with a broken hand and had to make the most of the situation with a negative spoiling style.

 

Maybe Frazier due to the Ali win.
Tyson comes up close though.

I have Frazier at #8 and Tyson at #10

In a H2H matchup I'd give it to Tyson via UD12 or TKO6, but I'm not entirely sure due to Frazier's relentless heart.

 

Tyson was faster, stronger, and better defensively than Frazier, plus he arguably hit harder than Joe with both fists. However many times Frazier landed on Ali, Tyson would have landed *a lot* more. I don't see how FOTC Ali stands a chance of beating prime Tyson. He'd last the distance, sure, but he wouldn't win. I'd only pick '65-'67 Ali to beat Tyson.