Could Jeffries have beaten Johnson in his comeback with modern training & PED assistance?

But we won't assume that. Johnson was younger, so we're only giving Jeffries PEDs in order to level the plain field.
Who do you think wins in this scenario ?

 

Interesting question.Jeffries had a year and a half to train,he had begun light training before he confirmed he would comeback.Once he was set on returning Jeffries worked like a dog ,stomach crunches ,skipping ,pulleys wrestling ,heavy bag work, you name it he did it.He was down to weight almost a year before the fight.What he neglected was sparring with a couple of young fast big men.Armstrong was a back number by then and Choynski was over 40 and a light heavy,Corbett was ancient too.Jeffries concentrated on conditioning and forgot about actual boxing ,hence at fight time his timing ,distance, and stamina were totally off, plus he had over 5 years of not getting punched in the face,anyone who has boxed knows it takes some accustoming to.
Choynski stated Jeff was in as good condition as he could be given his circumstances,he said he would never have been able to absorb the punishment had he not been.Choynski believed Jeffries suffered a mental collapse,that the tremendous pressure to "retrieve the honour of the White Race," got to him and that he didn't have any confidence that he could win,that he just got swept up in a tide of white supremist BS.
Jeffries had a terrible night prior to the fight,he spent it pacing the floor,not exactly ideal before the biggest fight of your life.
Jeffries complained of "feeling ***** "in the morning of being," not quite there," and he had difficulty focusing on things,it's possible he was caving in mentally.
Prime for prime I think he still loses,but in a much more tougher and competitive struggle.
Johnson matched him in strength and was superior in technique.
When Corbett saw how easily Johnson handled Jeff in the clinches he put his head in his hands,he knew the game was up. Jeffries was a very strong man for his time,but he was used to manhandling men significantly lighter and in many cases older.
Jeff's usual MO was to steadily come forward looking to slam that big left into his opponents ribs and gradually wear him down with his size and strength,absorbing the punches that he had to,confident his own would be more punishing , that was never going to work against Johnson.
I think it was necessary to have a preamble to understand what Jeffries brought to the table.
Modern supplements.
Getting into the ring Jeffries looked as good as Johnson .His stomach was packed with muscle his brawny arms toned ,would PED's materially improve on that?
It would be in the strength department that Jeffries would benefit,modern science would probably have enabled him to ,if not dominate the clinches,at least not be dominated in them.His stamina would also be improved probably markedly,but his timing,judgement of distance,defence would not.There have been thousands of instances where superior technique has conquered strength and durability.
Ali v Chuvalo,Mayweather v Gatti,Robinson v LaMotta, you could go on for pages.
So no I don't think Jeffries would beat Johnson with the modern advantages that are available today,they would not enhance his head movement,reaction to punches, or his overall defensive abilities,better conditioning would make him more competitive and perhaps enable him to take more of a beating without falling,but his fundamentals would not be changed.imo.

 

Modern training, strategies, and nutrition help you in the modern world. They're not going to prepare you for long, 20+ round bouts in hot outdoor environments with no neutral corner rules after a knockdown, smaller gloves, and wrestling. It's like comparing rugby to football, they're only superficially similar. Sure modern trainers could help him in his muscle recovery, strength training, food, etc but they'd be completely out of their element in many ways.

There are also two other factors that would be a major issue in the rematch even with modern science and knowledge:

-Jeff had a long layoff with no tune ups. Simply losing weight, sparring, and eating nutritious meals doesn't change the fact his reflexes, timing, and fighting instinct had grown weaker. I don't care who you are, jumping right back into title contention against an ATG with no warm up fights won't end well. With his rugged come forward style he'd probably need at least 3 matches to have any chance at all.

-Johnson had thoroughly studied Jeff's style and knew how to neutralize it. Johnson did not struggle at all and it was obvious he spent some time looking for weaknesses and strategies ahead of time. Even with the benefit of hindsight (the modern trainers having access to Johnson's career and footage/books), they'd still need to try and have the come forward slugger beat the defensive grappling fighter which is a very ugly clash of styles no matter which era.

I think Jeff would still have a very uphill battle ahead of him.

 

Holyfield looked like **** in his forties, and was getting his head punched in by guys like Byrd, Toney, Donald, Ibragimov, etc.

 

I don't think PEDs and any sort of training would have done enough for Jeffries to actually beat Johnson in 1910.
He'd been out for too long.

 

In that case I really can’t say. Obviously Jeffries would come in stronger and more physically capable but he’d still be battling the issues of age and long time inactivity. I suppose anything could have happened

 

PEDs can't give you ring rounds and sharpened intuitive senses, mind body connection etc from constant competition and practise. I think Jefferies still loses unless you're giving him 2 years to train and spar / compete or the like. If anything Jefferies might just last longer to take more of a beating. It's not like Jefferies was a super experienced 100+ bouter beforehand either.

I know there are a lot of people who understate or outright ignore the effects of PEDs on here, but there is also a subset of posters who hype them as God's gift. Jefferies may be enhanced here but he isn't becoming a superman or a demi god.

 

No. His body was physically denuded from weight loss. Also, he admitted that Johnson would have beaten him in his prime.

 

All of the above.

 

can we also give jeffries a gun? a modern one preferably but any kind would do. how bout we blindfold johnson as well?

 

Rahman, Ruiz, Oquendo and Botha would have a different story to tell. He was still pretty good, if not what he once was.

 

He changed his mind a few times about this subject. I don't think it's clear that Johnson would have beaten 1905 Jeffries.

 

Rahman suffered a major hematoma from an obviously intentional head butt and Holyfield somehow got a gift win. That fight meant absolutely zip.

Hoylfield went 1-1-1 with Ruiz who was a B level guy at best to begin with.

Botha was mediocre.

Not sure how these fights indicate holy "still pretty good" past 40. Especially given the one sided ass whooping Toney gave him and the schooling from Byrd.

 

Better effort, but still falls short