Larry was tough for sure but I don’t think his chin or a ability to absorb punishment in general were at the same level as Ali’s, which is really asking a lot from any other ATG anyway.. For the rope a dope Ali also tapped on a contingent measure that was already well practiced in the gym though not necessarily designed for Zaire or Foreman specifically. I don’t believe Holmes ever trained in any such fashion but we can give him same for the sake of the hypothetical. Additionally, pulling off the rope a dope is one thing, that being the controlled bartering of a measure of one’s own resilience for a certain portion of George’s energy, with a net outcome in your favour. It’s another thing again what a fighter then chooses to do otherwise to complement the rope a dope (if he is still even capable of trying to execute anything after taking heavy shots on ropes). The rope a dope was just one component integrated with a number of other things Ali did in very fine balance to pull off the win. Personally, I see it all as a one off script type thing, in some ways sprinkled with some “as you go”, ad hoc stuff, a package performance that I doubt even Ali could pull off again as well as he did. Interestingly, I remember seeing Ali lament in his second career that the one thing he couldn’t train off was that little bit of extra flesh in the belly. Not much but it was there and Ali’s abs were certainly better defined in his relative younger days. However, appearances are superficial. It was even more interesting to read Norton, who was chronically afflicted with his own pronounced 6 pack that just wouldn’t go away, state that punching Ali in the body was like hitting “concrete”.
There´s an interview with Holmes and the greatest HWs. I think its this one: This content is protected He said if you stood right in front of GF he´d kill you. And that he by no means wouldt fight him that way. Discussion on Foreman starts at part 6.
This content is protected Nice reference. Thanks. I remember this, here’s Larry’s verbatim take on Foreman, starts about 6:30. Larry was no dummy though he said some things that sorely lacked proper perspective but then later he’d contradict himself (all for the better) by including omitted context and more on point observations. I think a lot of stuff that Larry said that didn’t quite add up was borne out of emotional discord with his being unjustly underrated in the first instance. He overcompensated with some outlandish statements that even he, imo, knew were not entirely correct. A GREAT fighter and quite adept at the one liners himself much to the King of one liners, Bert Sugar’s feigned chagrin.
The only reason that Muhammad Ali invented the Rope A Dope on Oct 30 1974 in Zaire, Africa against Champion George Foreman was because at that point in time, Ali's legs were long gone. The invention was to take advantage of Foreman's glaring weakness, a lack of stamina. Larry Holmes would not have used the Rope A Dope, he had bounce in his legs and a strong left jab, better stamina.
I have seen the Mercer fight. It was a great peformance. But Mercer isn't nearly as powerful as young Foreman.
I don't think Holmes does the rope a dope as much as using his right hand and jab, yet George would have been a tough fight for Larry, even the prime Larry.
Not exactly. Ali's legs were still pretty good, but not nearly the same as in the 1960's. But the ring was small & soft; any mover would have trouble there, especially with a great slugger & ring cutter; even under those conditions Ali was surprised at how fast Foreman was. He had practiced the contingency of rope-dope, then during the fights seeing that he taking 2 steps to Foreman's one would exhaust him. Like someone observed here, he did a few things very well & improvised brilliantly. In that ring Holmes would have been at a large disadvantage.
Holyfield knew going into the Holmes fight that Holmes would attempt to employ the same strategy that worked vs Mercer on him, so Holyfield got in close, went to Holmes body, picked some shots upstairs and backed out to reset and come back to do it again. The key to combat the rope a dope strategy is not to go all out. You go in and throw some hard shots, comeback out and reset. You can do that all the way to a decision victory. Had Foreman done that vs Ali, he'd have won every round easily.
Yeah, how did that come to pass re the ring size? Ali wanted 20 ft, Foreman wanted 19 ft. Foreman probably preferred even less but likely figured that was the best he could push for. Instead they got a 16 ft ring with 19 ft ring ropes. A proverbial phone booth bottom out which Foreman would’ve loved but not so much the loose ropes. Did Foreman’s camp pull a shifty or was it just an honest to goodness screw up? If the latter, very poor show given how much money was put into that fight. So yes, Larry has to fight in that very same 16 foot ring. That much less ring to cut down which Foreman was very good at doing anyway.
Holyfield was falling for it. It took his corner repeatedly telling him to stop falling for it, and then screaming it across the ring during during the fight, for Holyfield to stop.
I understand it was just a screw up. In fact, although conspiracy theory prone folks will not like it, the loose ropes were part of the whole issue-they did not have ropes to fit that ring size. It was terrible planning. There is no way that a country that loved Ali would give him such a cozy space-& soft floor-the opposite of what would asrguably be in their self-interest.
As Dundee explained it, he tightened (not loosened) the turnbuckle tension as high as it could go to mitigate the extra 3 foot slack but as we saw, the ropes were still somewhat loose. I could be wrong, but as per Dundee again, I think Foreman’s team tried to fiddle with the ropes mid fight or between rounds but a screaming Dundee warned them off.
Physically, I guess he could have pulled it off - but one of the biggest reasons, IMHO, the rope-a-dope worked so well for Ali was his psychological/mental game. He out-psyched Foreman, got him doubting himself so George fell into the trap without realizing it. While Holmes was certainly mentally strong and could talk trash with the best of them, he wasn’t in Ali’s league of getting in his opponents head and putting their thoughts and emotions into a blender … and without that, a lot of the strategy gets nullified Just my .02, I could be wrong -
