Conventional wisdom: If the best modern cruisers (70-80’s HW size) could typically be successful in the most lucrative, popular and prestigious division, more of them would move up and do it but they have sparred top heavyweights and don’t fancy their chances. They prefer instead to cut weight and fight smaller men, who are easier to beat. There is substantial truth to this but it’s far from a complete explanation. Why stronger cruisers often don’t move up or stay up: 1. Career longevity/health/family reasons (Lebedev) 2. They suspect that they wouldn't get a fair decision against an A-side HW champion 3. They want to build a legacy at cruiserweight by making many defences (Huck) and there is decent money in being a cruiserweight champion these days 4. They believe that it would be difficult to get good fights at heavyweight, especially if they’re from a less marketable nation (HW’s don’t want to risk losing to “puny” fighters from an allegedly inferior division, don’t get nearly as much credit for beating cruisers and many HW’s find fast cruiserweights to be more difficult opponents, partly due to their rarity at HW and they may fear that “David” will have an advantage with the officials). 5. They want to become unified/undisputed cruiserweight champion for P4P, legacy and mandatory status before moving up to HW to challenge for titles (a lot harder these days due to stronger competition and an additional belt to win; Briedis would have moved up if he’d won the 2018 WBSS) Why weaker cruisers often move up and stay up: 1. They’re purely looking to make more money 2. They're too old or undisciplined to make weight 3. They lack natural speed (Kevin Johnson) 4. They’ve reached their level at cruiser (Hunter, Bellew, Gassiev) All of these factors disproportionately select for weaker cruisers moving up but their failure doesn’t imply that the best cruisers will fail. The failure of a multitude of weaker cruisers has however given the division a poor reputation, maybe to the advantage of stronger cruisers moving up. It makes sense that talented lighter heavyweights would start at modern cruiserweight (200 lbs, day before weigh-in) for several reasons, including to gain professional experience against smaller, more athletic and more disciplined but still big opponents while minimising risk and wear and tear, before making a run at HW as a seasoned pro (Okolie). Historically, the cruiserweight division was much weaker relative to the heavyweight division due to political-economic walls (Americans have never taken cruiserweight seriously and the Usyk’s, Briedis’s, Lebedev’s, Gassiev’s and Dorticos’s weren’t allowed to compete) the lower weight limit (190 lbs, same day weigh-in) and a lack of money, interest and prestige (similar to bridgerweight now, with many potential cruisers formerly choosing LHW or HW but a natural sub-cruiser hasn’t won a heavyweight title fight since Byrd in October 2005) so a greater number of cruiserweights have been able to be successful at heavyweight in recent times. The cruiserweight division has existed since December 1979, producing just three CW/HW two division champions over this period but since November 2009, two cruiserweight champions (one a unified champion with 3 belts, the other an undefeated, undisputed champion with 4) have won heavyweight titles.
Interesting post, but if you look at the CWs that DO move up and win at HW, they are generally either guys who unified at CW first, or at least cleaned out their divisions. The most obvious names that cone to mind are Holyfield, Usyk, and David Haye. And they all had success when they moved up. Come to think of it, I cant think off the top of my head of any CW champs that moved up and failed. You can even throw james Toney into the mix. His nemesis Jirov moved up and got stopped by Moorer in a great fight, but Jirov was not the same after the war with Toney, and not moving up as a current champion either . It seems there are always two or may be three big fights top at CW and then these guys move on up. So I guess the flip side to your question would be, what CW champs moved up and fell short? In the cases of Holyfield and Haye, but more specifically Holyfield, he was still growing and filling out his body, so the HW jump seemed a foregone conclusion. Other 'true' CWs like Wayne Braithewait, Oneil Bell, Adolpho Washinton, Torsten May and so on and so forth stick around at CW their entire run. Probably Fabrize Tiosso is the best example of this
Juan Carlos Gomez, Adamek (LHW) and Mormeck (small and old) were all cruiser champs who challenged the Klitschko brothers and got beat down and stopped for their troubles. Cunningham was a 2x cruiser champ who got robbed at HW against Adamek, then ran into a young Fury and got flattened, albeit after a very spirited performance. Many thought that long-reigning cruiser champ Huck was robbed against Povetkin, so I don't know if his attempt counts as a failure. Hide is an interesting case because he wasn't a cruiser champ yet he won HW titles, though he got smashed by Bowe and Vitali. Qawi (tiny) Ocasio (small) and de Leon (small) were cruiser champs but failures at HW. The vast majority of cruiserweight champions who moved up to heavyweight failed. I'm certain that the non-champs who have moved up have faired even worse. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_cruiserweight_boxing_champions[/url] However, you're right that unified cruiser champs who moved up have had more success: Holyfield was undisputed with three belts, Haye was unified with three and Usyk was undisputed with four. Mormeck (unified with two) is the only one who failed. Gassiev was unified with two before being shut out in Russia by Usyk but he has not had any meaningful fights at HW since moving up.
All valid points good brother... But keep in mind, most of those guys you mentioned (Gomez, adamek mormeck and cunningham) came up and fought Klitschko era HWs... We're talking moving up from 200 lbsand facing guys that are 240, 250, and close to a foot taller. Theres too much discrepancy there
Mormeck, Huck, Gomez, Guillermo Jones, Jirov, Al Cole, Orlin Norris and Cunnigham failed to become heavyweight champions.
True true , but many of them were shells of themselves when they moved up, and others moved up from cw to fight klitchkos who had 50 pounds on them
It's a tall order but it can be done as we've seen recently with AJ-Usyk. Holyfield fought Bowe close the 2nd time and got the decision. Haye had a puncher's chance against Wlad. Briedis may well have been competitive with SHW's, we'll probably find out if he fights Okolie.
Because a lot of guys who come up from other divisions to win it just skip cruiser altogether...Spinks, Moorer, Byrd, and Jones, to be specific. Even Chagaev and Ibragimov could have started out as cruisers if they wanted to.
That is a good point but we haven't seen a sub-cruiser champ at HW for a while, Byrd was the last about 15 years ago. I believe that the HW division has more relative cachet in America than in Eastern Europe, so the top post-Soviet LHW's and cruisers who have dominated aren't so desperate to move up. You're right that many HW's could have been cruisers if they really wanted to be: Parker, Ruiz, Whyte, Ortiz and Wilder are more recent examples. Is there some truth to @Serge and Kevin Johnson's idea that the cruiserweight division is a harder division? Imagine Ruiz fighting good cruisers: he would never win a round as they danced around him reeling off combinations. Wilder (whose sniper style wasn't best equipped to deal with a blown up C-level cruiser southpaw Szpilka, minus hometown judging) would also struggle more against fast cruisers than plodding heavies, Whyte (fastest opponent Parker? lol) and Ortiz (if the Malik Scott performance is anything to go by) even more so. Hunter moved up because the top cruisers were too good and he wanted to prey on fat plodders like Bakole and Kuzmin, Sanchez is another cruiser who recently dissected a slow, stiff, hapless Ajagba. HW's don't have to diet to make weight so the division attracts the old and ill-disciplined. However, some fighters like Ruiz, Whyte or Kownacki may be vastly weaker without the fat but still have slow feet and an equivalent amount of muscle would cause them to gas out in two rounds. To be an elite cruiser you have to be there for reasons other than money because you'd make more by not cutting that 10+ lbs and fighting at HW. The conventional wisdom is that it's to fight easier competition but Huck's performance against Povetkin relative to his performances against Cunningham and Lebedev goes against that, as does Adamek's against Arreola and Briedis's against Charr among others. Plodding HW's don't want to fight cruisers not just because it's more embarrassing to lose to them but because they're more likely to.
Yeah, I get that, but the point is add those names to Holyfield, Usyk, and Haye, and to guys who come out of the amateurs from a lower weight like Sultan and Chag, and the fact is that there are a lot more guys than you think coming up from lower weights to win the heavyweight championship. -If you just count cruisers, it is 3 since the inception of the cruiserweight division. -If you count cruisers and lower weight classes, it is seven. -If you include guys who fight amateur at heavy (201 LBS) and joined the pro ranks as heavies (unlimited), you can add at least 3 more that I can think of (Sultan, Chag, Mercer) for 10. So the answer to why so few jump from cruiser is that some of the best have avoided cruiser. But it is fairly common for guys to come up and grab a championship belt.
It's problematic to include amateur HW because this is often when the fighters are in their late teen's/early 20's and as they mature they naturally become SHW's. Others fight a lot better with some extra fat on them (Eddie Chambers) though maybe that's because their bodies have adjusted to it over the years at HW. I take your point that many of the big LHW's and small HW's who won titles could have been good cruisers who later moved up and won HW titles and that this has been a significant factor. But in recent years, the increasing prestige of the cruiserweight division and the higher weight limit have surely absorbed some of the fighters who would have formerly fallen into other weight categories, especially HW.
