Would appreciate any thoughts on my all time lineal heavyweight list

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Del Boy, Dec 7, 2021.


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  1. Del Boy

    Del Boy R.I.P Darren Sutherland Full Member

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    Just something I’ve been thinking about in work to pass the time, and interested to hear if anyone disagrees strongly with any places. Totally open for criticism, these lists are totally subjective.

    For criteria, most importantly, head to head is not relevant.

    Things that are important are, quality of opposition/domination of a division, quality of the opponent the title was one from as well as lost to, post title career.

    Below heavyweight career is considered either so Charles, Moorer, Holyfield etc could be lower than some might expect.

    This is only for Lineal champions, so no titlests (sorry Ken Norton) and I don’t count Vitali Klitschkos ring belt reign as lineal. Tyson Fury’s careers isn’t over so I’ve not ranked him yet.

    And please tell me if I’ve missed someone, can’t shake the feeling I have.

    Here’s the list from lowest to highest.

    1. * James J Braddock
    2. * Primo Carnera
    3. * Jess Willard
    4. * Jack Sharkey
    5. * Marvin Hart
    6. * Hasim Rahman
    7. * Ingamaer Johanson
    8. * Max Baer
    9. * James Buster Douglas
    10. * Leon Spinks
    11. * Tommy Burns
    12. * Shannon Briggs
    13. * Max Schmeling
    14. * Michael Moorer
    15. * Michael Spinks
    16. * John L Sullivan
    17. * Riddick Bowe
    18. * Bob Fitzsimmons
    19. * Ezzard Charles
    20. * James J Corbett
    21. * Jersey Joe Walcott
    22. * James J Jeffries
    23. * Jack Dempsey
    24. * Mike Tyson
    25. * Gene Tunney
    26. * Floyd Patterson
    27. * Evander HolyField
    28. * Charles Sonny Liston
    29. * Joe Frazier
    30. * Wladamir Klitschko
    31. * Rocky Marciano
    32. * Jack Johnson
    33. * Larry Holmes
    34. * Lennox Lewis
    35. * George Foreman
    36. * Joe Louis
    37. * Muhammad Ali
    ​
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2021
    Del Boy, Dec 7, 2021
    Del Boy, Dec 7, 2021
    #1
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  2. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

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    Larry Holmes was only WBC Heavyweight Champion, not a lineal champion.
     
    Richard M Murrieta, Dec 7, 2021
    Richard M Murrieta, Dec 7, 2021
    #2
  3. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    I don't see Max Schmeling, could be my mistake though

    IMO Sharkey is way too low, he has a lot of very good wins including over Harry Wills, Tommy Loughran and Young Stribling

    Fitzsimmons should be ahead of Corbett much stronger heavyweight record and beat him.

    Tunney is way too high, his heavyweight record consists of a past it Dempsey, and some mediocre contenders.

    I don't think Burns belongs over Baer or Ingo, beating Hart and O'Brien isn't nearly as good as Schmeling or Patterson.

    Patterson also is too high for me considering his losses to Ingo and bad losses to Liston
     
    BitPlayerVesti, Dec 7, 2021
    BitPlayerVesti, Dec 7, 2021
    #3
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  4. Philly161

    Philly161 "Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless" banned Full Member

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    Not a bad list but I'm really used to seeing lists like this rated best to worst so weird seeing Ali as number 36
     
    Philly161, Dec 7, 2021
    Philly161, Dec 7, 2021
    #4
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  5. Del Boy

    Del Boy R.I.P Darren Sutherland Full Member

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    Thank you, I did leave Max out, I had written my list out first.

    Corbett and Fitz was one I spent a long time thinking about, I totally understand your logic but for me as weird as it sounds Corbett beating Sullivan is a better win in its day than Fitzsimmons beating Corbett. Corbett also came so close to regaining the title against Jeffries.

    Tunney for me gets by one the giant wins against Dempsey and most importantly retiring undefeated and staying retired, the original lineage ends with him.

    And with Patterson, regaining the title and a truly solid run as a contender after his reign (quiet rare on this list) bumps him up. Also despite how badly Liston rip the title from him, we know how good Sonny was, and styles make fights.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2021
    Del Boy, Dec 7, 2021
    Del Boy, Dec 7, 2021
    #5
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  6. Del Boy

    Del Boy R.I.P Darren Sutherland Full Member

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    When Fury retires Ali will get even lower
     
    Del Boy, Dec 7, 2021
    Del Boy, Dec 7, 2021
    #6
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  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    The bottom four men should all be a lot higher.

    Sharkey is ridiculously low, he should be mid table at worst!

    Leon Spinks is far too high, he has basically got WOAT locked down!

    Corbett is too high, but your ranking of Fitzsimmons is inspired.

    No disrespect to Tunney or Patterson, but you have them a bit too high.
     
    janitor, Dec 7, 2021
    janitor, Dec 7, 2021
    #7
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  8. red corner

    red corner Active Member banned Full Member

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    Pretty good but Carrera is obviously too low and Patterson too high!
     
    red corner, Dec 7, 2021
    red corner, Dec 7, 2021
    #8
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    Tyson Fury.
     
    janitor, Dec 7, 2021
    janitor, Dec 7, 2021
    #9
  10. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'd have Carnera ahead of Marvin Hart, Tommy Burns, Jess Willard, Leon Spinks and probably Buster Douglas.

    Jack Sharkey should be definitely higher, like at least 5 spots higher (probably closer to 10).

    I'd have Max Baer slightly higher, probably ahead of Burns, Briggs and maybe Moorer.

    Leon Spinks is way too high, he's the candidate for the worst champion ever. I would put him around Jess Willard.

    Shannon Briggs is also way too high. I might have him last to be honest.

    Tommy Burns is too high, he was a very good boxer but his resume is so mediocre.

    Max Schmeling is a top 15 candidate, you added him way too low.

    Corbett is too high, shouldn't be ahead of Fitzsimmons and definitely not over Schmeling.

    Charles ahead of Walcott is a must-have. I think that Walcott's place is overstated, but it's not impossible to defend that statement.

    Tunney is way too high, he has very slim resume at HW. Should be below top 25.
     
    70sFan865, Dec 7, 2021
    70sFan865, Dec 7, 2021
    #10
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :lol: superb, this place in a nutshell
     
    McGrain, Dec 7, 2021
    McGrain, Dec 7, 2021
    #11
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  12. Noel857

    Noel857 I Am Duran

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    Can`t have Patterson above Tyson
     
    Noel857, Dec 7, 2021
    Noel857, Dec 7, 2021
    #12
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  13. Omega74

    Omega74 Member Full Member

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    Floyd Patterson is too high and you could rank James J Jeffries a bit higher. He beat 2 of the 3 former champions twice, imo almost cleaned out the whole division and he was the first HW Champ to retire undefeated (even tho he didnt stay undefeated).
     
    Omega74, Dec 7, 2021
    Omega74, Dec 7, 2021
    #13
  14. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Tyson, Sharkey way too low, Briggs too high, yeah Fitz well above Corbett but the rest is arguable, well done!Douglas probably too low too, McCall, Tucker good quality opposition, beat a great champ, lost to another great champ...IMO.
     
    mattdonnellon, Dec 7, 2021
    mattdonnellon, Dec 7, 2021
    #14
  15. ironchamp

    ironchamp Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Guys the list is from LOWEST to HIGHEST.

    OP- Probably better your rank the lists in descending order as a rule of thumb.
     
    ironchamp, Dec 7, 2021
    ironchamp, Dec 7, 2021
    #15
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