That makes sense. It seems when Larry signed to fight Ring Magazine #1 the WBC threatened to strip him for not fighting Ring Magazine #2?
I just never really saw a convincingly strong set of wins from Page. His lost to Berbick was definitely a setback, lost to BEY (yikes) and...I don't know, I was never convinced he was SO good that Holmes should have to fight him. To me, in 1982 guys like Cooney and maybe Dokes were better contenders (though I'm first to admit Cooney was fighting too sparsely). A guy that imo deserved to be in the ring with Holmes more than Page was probably Thomas, but even he suffered a loss to Berbick that he shouldn't have. Never a really long, strong set of victories from him, either. I just don't see how Holmes ducked anyone who was really THAT good. Dokes looked meh in the Weaver rematch, Witherspoon got beat a couple times...once very badly...
The thing is the governing bodies have rules and rankings set in place and it doesn't matter if you or i believe this one of that one may have been better, particularly years down the track. Page was certainly myriads better than Scott Frank, Marvis Frazier and a host of others that's for sure. History as it was right then had many seeing Page as the top threat and in light of Holmes showing against Witherspoon and Pages against Snipes quite a few thought he might be "in the right place at the right time" and one mag actually ran a story on exactly that header. Holmes obviously felt Page was a threat as he wanted more money than was feasible at the time.
for me, during the reign of any champion there are good contenders that for whatever reason miss out. They beat enough good guys to deserve a shot but miss out because of a loss at the wrong time and their challenge loses luster around the time the champion is ready to fight. The problem of the 1980s was the politics inflating the stature and “mandatory” status of the same kinds of guys that had always been around in each era. Eddie Machen and Zora Foley were busy contenders who fought and beat other contenders but missed out. When Marciano was champion Bob Baker and nino missed out. When Louis was champ Lem Franklin and melio Bettina missed out. No biggie. The champions still beat or fought guys as good or better. Nobody minded much. it became a biggie in the 1980s though because for the first time you had a two stream system of so called “governing bodies” officially legitimising the cause of guys like Greg Page. Who was just a guy like Eddie Machen or nino Valdes. worse, guys like Tubbs and Dokes became holders with less real credentials. Page himself won a title after losing his last two fights.
He underachieved for sure and in the long haul wasn't as good as many thought to go with that. On his good nights however he was quite formidable and given Holmes was slowing he would have been plenty competitive on a good night. You are right that he was barely ever in peak condition and therein lay his problem - he'd got along for so long on talent he didn't ever refine it and thought he could win on talent alone. He wasn't prepared to do the hard yards very often and it just wasn't enough. sweetsci is spot on when he says his best year was 1981. Monroe was Ring ranked #6 and the others were fringe contenders of whom at least two had been in the top ten reasonably recently. The trouble was Page never really improved from that point when he should have been soaring. He missed the boat. In an article from that time when Holmes assessed all his contenders (great little article) Holmes said Page needed to stop trying to be another Ali. He said he needed to stop bouncing around, get his hands up and concentrate on the fundamentals basically. He was spot on but it never happened. He continued to fight like a talented amateur. The best ever shape i saw him in was against Snipes and you could sneak Ward and Monroe into that. Against Coetzee he was overweight but had from all accounts trained hard. Bonecrusher smith had this to say about Page as he was about to face Tubbs (1985) and it sums him up well - ''When he's right, I don't think any of the heavyweights on the scene can beat him,'' said James (BoneCrusher) Smith, who lost a 10-round decision to Tubbs last month. Tubbs and Page fought five times as amateurs, with Page winning four of the bouts. ''He's the best heavyweight around in terms of talent,'' Smith added. ''But that Greg Page doesn't always show up. Sometimes the more talent you have, the further into yourself you have to go to find the point where the hard work begins. I don't know if he's willing to pay the price. But hey, he's the champ. He's gotta to be doing something right.''
It was. He was spot on for the general feeling of the time. Smith was actually quite the intellectual with at least two degree's and it shows in his phrasing.
I always had a lot of time for Bones Smith. I don’t think he had it very easy. Losing to Larry Tim, and Marvis. He persevered and he still got there. The beating he got off Tim should have finished him but Bones kept at it, was in shape and scored good wins over Weaver and I think Bey as well as the revenge blow out over Witherspoon.
When you got the power Smith had and keep plugging away and doing your best, chances are you'll come up trumps sooner or later and rightfully so.
But you stopped at 1980. How do we know he makes it to 1985 if he's the only champion and he has to fight Tate, Thomas, Coetzee, Dokes Page, Tubbs, etc. He woudnt be able to cherry pick from 1980 to 1985. It's a double edged sword. Having multiple champions actually made it easier for Holmes to reign until 1983 and then benefit from being handed the IBF title in 1983 when he didnt want to fight his #1 contender.
Don king didn’t want only one champ cos he could make more money with more title fights an he controlled all the top heavyweights at that time so Holmes couldn’t have unified even if he wanted to.
Yeah it was but he did beat Coetzee for the WBA title and at the time he should have fought Holmes he was prime. But he was a headcase and came in at 239.5 lbs for the Witherspoon fight. He was 227 lbs when he beat Snipes only seven months earlier. If he weighed 227-230 for Holmes it would have been very interesting. He was clearly much better and well proven than Marvis Frazier and Scott Frank, who Holmes actually fought in that time frame.
He gets plenty of grief here by many that either like to blame, don't know the history or revise it .... Holmes was champ right in the middle of the Don King reign of power and subject to as much abuse and political jerking as anyone ... Once thing is certain .. from Norton to Cooney Holmes would fight anyone at anytime for the money .. post Cooney he said screw it and started to play the game on his own a bit because he could ..
I always chuckle at the Thor-from-Endgame ‘well he’s never beat me twice’ thing — like winning the first meeting doesn’t count unless you do it again. Norton, btw, was in line to fight a rematch with Holmes but he got KO’d in one round by Earnie Shavers in an eliminator. Oh well.
