Why do people say that Hagler was cheated when he fought Leonard?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Ali Holmes, Jan 7, 2022.



  1. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    True, But I believe that the title defense against John Mugabi at that point in time demonstrated his vulnerability in a tough fight, as the year before Marvelous Marvin Hagler had engaged in a brutal 2 round war with Tommy Hearns, then the fight with Juan Roldan. Too many combat style fights has to take a heavy toll on a body after a while. Sugar Ray Leonard did take top billing over Hagler as the more flashy charismatic fighter to watch. While it was a huge payday, Leonard was not even ranked, he had not fought in a while.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2022
  2. Rollin

    Rollin Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Not why he cheated, but why the fight was stacked for Leonard:

    Hagler gave up ring size, gloves, and early rounds — the last mainly because he thought Leonard was coming out of retirement. He didn't know Ray had at least three boxing matches (referee etc.) behind the closed doors to prepare himself under the radar.

    Hagler cleaned the division and had many more bouts to wear and tear him. He was seriously considering retirement and simply wasn't all that at the time.

    And still majority of experts consider this fight at the very least a draw and quite possibly a victory for Hagler.

    Leonard won a popularity contest and ran from a rematch as fast as possible.
     
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  3. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I know that the Hagler vs Leonard fight was only for the WBC title, the other organizations did not recognize the fight. After Leonard won, the title became splintered again.
     
  4. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    It was card of the one judge that scored it 118-110 for Leonard. It was a 1 or 2 point fight. So either this judge was incompetent or bought. IMO that judge walked in that arena determined to score the fight for Leonard. That is what was controversial.

    Anyone that disputes the above is simply part of the problem.

    Leonard was a Superstar of the sport. He had, has a large fan base. Hagler had his fans but they were more of the hard-core boxing fan. Leonard was an underdog and naturally smaller man. Some feared for Ray's health and safety.
    It was the perfect storm really. Ray threw some blinding, fast flurries, shoeshines, pleasing to the eye, crowd pleasing and the judges tend to be lured by this amateur tactic. Leonard landing some good punches. He also did alot of moving away and running that night. As well as any holding was 100% Leonard. So in a fight with alot of close rounds Marvin Hagler loses his title.
    It was a bad look.

    Some in the media blame Hagler for not going Southpaw from the start. He fought a dumb fight. I was brainwashed enough to buy that for years after. Then I viewed the fight about a year and half ago. I was taken back Ray's fouls on Hagler. A variety of striking fouls done over the first 7 rounds. They were almost like suckerpunches.
    Leonard hit on the break, hit after the bell, held and hit, hit low including a bolo to the groin. He was a busy little guy. Usually a good referee will warn a guy the first time they commit a striking foul. Maybe twice, then 1 point.
    Just another part of the picture was off the normal rules. So all in all it understandable that many a fan view that nite with scorn. I've never enjoyed watching that fight and probably never watch it again. My opinion it was fixed. It was Ray Leonard's nite.
    The critical on Hagler? He should have fouled Leonard back the same way he was fouled. He would have been a bully then and lost or eventually points DQd.
     
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  5. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Hagler's camp vetoed the original judge Harry Gibbs because of their bad experience against Minter in the UK.They okayed Guerra who turned in a ridicuously incompetent card.
    Ironically Gibbs ,who immediately flew home to the UK, watched the fight onTV and scored it for Hagler!
    I thought Hagler's corner were poor,there was no sense of urgency no ,"you need to turn this into dogfight ,"they were much too laid back ,imo.Close fight that could have gone either way,imo. I scored it for Leonard.
     
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  6. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    118-110 was the elephant in the room. Some of things that were a bad look. Like a great champion loses his title ( that he held for 7 years) to a punk who was fouling and running around the ring making faces at the champion. It's a bad look. Perception.

    Marvin Hagler wasn't your garden variety champion. He deserved as much respect as Leonard did. From the judges, the referee. It happens in life sometimes good people get the shaft. Money talked, Hagler walked, it was Ray Leonard's nite.
     
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  7. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    One incompetent judge does not mean the fight was fixed in Leonard's favour. Leonard comes back after 3 years fights at 160lbs for the first and only time against a top all time 4 middleweight champ and he is a punk?
    That punk has the scalps of;
    Duran
    Hearns
    Benitez
    Kalule
    On his belt
    I'm a huge Hagler fan,but Jesus,are you screwed up about this fight !!!!
     
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  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    The other thing is quite a few fights have had similar blowout cards. Chuck Hassett had Holmes - Witherspoon 118-111 and he'd been judging forever. There are plenty of other examples but damned if i can think of them right now.
     
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  9. ikrasevic

    ikrasevic For the honorable cross and the golden freedom Full Member

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  10. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    If the Hagler camp had accepted the original choice of Harry Gibbs as a judge, Hagler would have kept his crown!
     
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  11. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    As long as he scored it the same from ringside absolutely. You'd think he would have too. I'm glad he was benched tho as i truly believe Leonard won the fight.
     
  12. JohnnyBriton

    JohnnyBriton New Member Full Member

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    Decided to rewatch the fight, probably my 10th time bell to bell. I always try to see something I didn’t before. While it was still as I remember, Leonard to me clearly won the fight. He was more active movement wise, which gave the important impression that he controlled the ring. Hagler just wasn’t very accurate that night with his punches. I couldn’t agree more that a smaller ring likely provides a different outcome. 118-110 scorecard was a joke.
     
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  13. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That's my take on it too. Hagler's corner seemed to be on
    cruise control. A great corner would've realized what the
    situation was, and pushed Hagler too step on the gas earlier.
    And Hagler a professional fighter for years, should've instinctively
    known after the 1st 3-4 rds what he's doing isn't effective.
    Time to step up the pace.
    When that fight was signed everyone in Hagler's corner
    should've known theirs is only one way Leonard's could
    win, and that's move, counter, flurry, move.
    Hagler's camp from day one should've been focused on
    that, he should 've came out on attack mode, focused
    on the body, push Leonard from rd 1.
    He was the more active fighter, Leonard was on the shelf
    partying and drinking for almost five years.
    Even if Leonard somehow survived Hagler on attack mode
    from early on, He would've taken his confidence, made
    him realize he's fighting to just not get hurt. Defensive
    minded only.
    By the time Hagler decided to step up the pace, the fight
    was over for all intentions, he allowed Leonard to gain
    confidence.
    In my opinion that's all on Hagler and his team.
    I don't fault Leonard for doing what he needed to do.
    I fault Hagler for NOT doing what was necessary
    to win.
    Hagler as great as he was could be taken out of his game.
    It was proven early in his career, by Watts and Monroe.
    It was proven by Antoufermo 1st fight, it was proven
    by Duran.
     
  14. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    When push came to shove (which it rarely did) Hagler had a pretty average team in his corner IMO comparative to many others. Hagler has to take a bit of blame himself too as other fighters at times have made their own instinctive decisions. In matches against top level ATG's it's my opinion that his corner might put him at a disadvantage against some of them.
     
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  15. White Bomber

    White Bomber Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ok, I might have exaggerated since I'm a Hagler fan, but the point is this is not the amateurs where every tap counts. Unless a punch does damage it should not count. A large percentage of SRL's punches hit Hagler's guard.