Genuine heresies you believe

A few from top of my head.

In many ways Tyson beats Douglas and Dempsey beat Tunney.

Frazier always beats Ali at his best and Duran always beats Leonard.

Foreman basically dispelled the myth of modern boxing vastly surpassing classic eras.


Plenty others but I'm too tired to think.

 

Tyson beat Douglas? Huh?

 

I agree I knew some guys who were similar to both Klits in size 6'6"-6'8" and 235-265 and none of them were on anything to my knowledge and looked completely natural and not bulky at all in fact fighters look much larger in a ring than they do in street clothes....245-250 at those heights is a very natural weight especially in the condition they were in.

Tyson may or may not have been on steroids but IMO having met him in real life and seen how normal he looked in street clothes and also seeing him out of condition in pictures he had to lose alot of weight to get down to 220 so if he was on anything it wasn't for bulking. I think the same of Holyfield he may have been on something due to his body proportions, but his height and weight are not near as big as he appears in the ring and his physique looked the same at 178 and cruiser and his weight gain could be as simple as eating more instead of starving down like he did but if he was on the juice you would think they would have decided on a better weight for the era than 210+-. Same with Tommy Morrison whom I had seen around when I was fighting was not as big as he appeared in the ring but he did bulk from a muscular 210 to 225-230 and anyone who lifes weights knows that 15-20 solid lbs of muscle is not easy to gain.

 

One magazine ran a full length article speculating whether Ali did indeed lose on purpose so as to set himself up for historically when regaining it. Some even thought he was avoiding Norton. Personally i don't agree with any such theories.

I'd be worried about anyone disagreeing with your second part. Hearn's hadn't even learned to clinch at this point.

There it is i finally found the mag. Bottom right corner.

https://www.ebay.com/p/2175424017

 

Sugar Ray Robinson is ridiculously overrated.

 

Tyson has enormous shoulders and a large head in person. He struck me as being bigger than Lamon Brewster, whose size didn't make much of an impression on me.

 

Essentially yeah. Different ref could easily have counted Douglas out that night.

 

Hector Camacho's performance vs Edwin Rosario was outstanding. He showed everything a champion should be. Talent, skill and heart as well as courage. Nothing negative there.

 

Muhammad Ali doesn't belong in P4P Top 100.

 

Don't throw tomatoes, guys, but Canelo is not the best mexican of all time

 

Now we’re talking…

 

I can’t begrudge that opinion.

To bring it into focus from a different perspective - change the players to Holmes vs Ali. Ali is getting beaten beyond doubt as the case actually was - BUT then Ali rips a miraculous punch (we’ll say an uppercut for the hell of it) in rd 8 and puts Larry down hard. Holmes gets a 14 count, appearing to need every sec before arising - he survives the rd and picks up where he left off with Ali unable to come out for rd 11.

In reaction to the long count in Ali’s disfavour, I’m pretty sure there would’ve been a far more venomous and widespread outrage fully maintained to this day.

 

If you watch the Tyson-Douglas fight, you can see Douglas was waiting for the 8 count and could have got up much earlier. The long count didn't matter at all.

 

I can’t necessarily disagree with that - for comparison Tunney said he was clear headed and rose in deference to ref Barry’s account affording himself max. rest time BUT could’ve arisen earlier if necessary.

Problem with long counts is that it will always come down to less secure interpretations - so there will always be arguments as to whether the fighter could’ve arisen before a reasonably true 10 seconds or not, appearances being argued for one way or the other.

I will say Buster appeared to be listening to the count but even when he began to rise at the count of 9, it was slow and the ref appeared to drop tools on the count after tolling 9 when he saw Buster begin to rise - so Buster might’ve just made it by 9.5 at best extrapolating the meter of the count but then again if the ref continued we might’ve seen the ref swing down for 10 with Buster technically still in contact with the canvas.

Mike’s count was similar in so far as the ref counted to 9 and dropped tools swinging down for 10. By the standard applied to Buster, it could be said Mike arose at about 9.5 (per the metered count) but the ref simply wrapped his arms around Mike to stop the fight - so really, a TKO not a KO.

 

Rocky Marciano's competition was actually pretty good, and is only disregarded because he broke the young contenders he fought in Layne and LaStarza