When has Joshua demonstrated he can't stick it out when the going gets tough? He got up every time against Ruiz and went on to dominate him in the rematch. He got off the floor against Wlad and KOed him late. He was buzzed badly in an early fight with Whyte and went on to KHTFO. He was even still trying right up until the final bell against Usyk. But Usyk is a freaking machine and was already in full control mode. What you say may be true, but there's just not enough data to back up that assertion at this point. We've seen how badly both men react to clean shots. Difference is Joshua has eaten a full force right hand off Wlad, while Wilder was getting buzzed by the much lighter puncher Fury. Fair play to Wilder for his heart and never backing down, but when did Joshua back down in the Ruiz fight? A fight people accuse him of quitting in? When you're getting put down and hurt by light punching CWs your chin isn't great. How many truly massive punchers have actually tested it? Wlad hardly landed anything, and outside of that it's just Wilder (whose punching power has itself not really been tested against the true cream of the division). Fury's recovery abilities are what keeps him in fights, but that's a different kettle of fish. Was it Wilder's performance that saw him have success against Fury in the third fight, or Fury's lack of preparation? The latter I believe. Windmills might well land a solid right hand against Josh, but is he going to automatically stop him with it? This content is protected
Wilder gave it his all against Fury but his limitations wouldn't let him get the win. Now, I believe he did give his ALL and it's likely that the tank is now empty mentally and physically. After considering everything, his bank account and psychological condition I'd be surprised if he fights this year, he doesn't need Ruiz, Helenius ,Joyce or anyone else to enhance his viability as a draw. He's going to be a big money contender for the next 2 to 3 years without those guys due to his thunderous power which fans love. Might as well let Uysk, Joshua, and Fury fight it out and look for a cash out fight in 2023 or 2024.
It’s not complicated. Wilder doesn’t have the skills to beat top fighters. He can still beat next tier. He should fight bums and clout chase the big names. Throw their names out but never fight them. This strategy works for other fighters like Tank Davis. Just make sure he flaps his gums and makes lots of threats on Twitter. There are enough stupid people who will fall for it.
No disrespect whatsoever to Usyk who is a great fighter and whom I strongly fancied to do just what he did to current Joshua. Equally I expect he'll do the same and I think Joshua himself believes as much. No, not fact. Merely my opinion. We all believe in our opinions though, don't we? That he spoke about potentially taking the step aside, that Eddie Hearn spoke of it openly etc, in my opinion (I'm sure I'm not alone) makes a decent case for the guy not really fully believing he can turn this around. Who could blame him? I don't. What relevance has his early pushing and (in your opinion) deeper resume got, in regards to his chances of beating Deontay Wilder in the here and now? You'll have to explain that. Joshua's only time where he recovered well in my opinion was against Whyte, who buzzed him pretty bad, for Joshua to fight back well and finish Whyte off ruthlessly. I've been quite clear from my initial post though that pre-loss Joshua was a different animal in my opinion (do I have to write this to clarify I'm stating an opinion each time?) R.e. Wlad, he was totally out of it for multiple rounds. That Wlad didn't finish him off as any other of the top heavyweights would (likely prime Wlad would have done) probably have done (particularly Wilder, perhaps Fury) astonished me at the time. He took quite a while to recover and he got let off the hook by Wlad, then, to his credit, produced a finish that he deserves great respect for. It was the night he earned my respect as one of the best of this era. But we can't look past that he was at one stage, finished when that is very relevant to the conversation here. I think there's more than enough opinion out there from people in a position to judge that Wilder is a freakishly big puncher. I think just looking at how devastating some of his finishes have been is enough alongside that to make an educated implication that he has pretty major KO power. He's a great finisher either way and certainly holds the power to shake someone up and give them that initial trouble that is often followed up by getting them out of there. Like Joshua certainly was up until his first loss. Perhaps it's yourself who is doing the nonsense talking though? Worth considering. Every fighter has weaknesses. I think anyone who is in doubt that Fury is a potential ATG is fairly well deluded at this point. GOAT is obviously a different thing. But those suggesting he has top 5 heavyweight potential are absolutely within reason. I think you're missing the fact that some elite heavyweights wouldn't have had Wilder in the position he was in, in order to be finished off in the first place. To say Fury was "very poor" that night is bizarre. Particularly if you claim to like him. He's been better and is capable of better, but he got the job done despite adversity. Wilder was bashed up bad in that fight and in the second fight and yet he continued throwing back in both fights, doing enough to stay in it (until the towel came in during the second). The guy has b**** of steel, I don't really see much other way of looking at it unless you really want to pretend Tyson Fury is feather fisted. Not very believable. So there isn't evidence that Wilder is a huge puncher, but there is enough evidence to state that "Joshua hits a lot harder than Fury"..? Sounds like you may have a bit of an agenda. Fury who is very skilled didn't manage to avoid Wilder's right hand. Fury who is multiple times more skilled, mobile, agile than Anthony Joshua. Wilder has made a career of biding his time and finding a way to land that. To suggest that Joshua could get through 12 rounds untouched/unphased would be a silly suggestion. It does seem that you're suggesting that though. To state that your opinion is that he could deal with it and get through quickly enough not to get finished would be more reasonable, although that is essentially where the disagreement seems to mostly come. Which is fine. It seems you believe he could. Possible. For me, not so. The evidence seems to point in the other direction. They'd both certainly get wins against each other, because neither is a level above the other. I obviously believe that in a one off fight though, with no hindsight, no opportunity to go away and work on a game plan based on how they lost to the same guy previously (as it's a one off fight), I'd stack the odds in Wilder's favour. I agreed on Wilder and his avoiding the top names until he had a trilogy with the best of this era. Yes the first one was likely because he saw it as a potential easy touch with Fury's issues, but to go a second and more so a third, after the beating he took in the second, was admirable. As was his insistence that he wanted to go out on his shield, as ill advised as that'd have been.
What I've written in the post above pretty much responds to this post also I'd say. So just read that. Except...Yeah I didn't say anything about Usyk. What I did say is that Joshua has been shown to struggle when he gets clipped with a good one. Ruiz Jr and Wlad are the proof of it. Contrary to you taking the Wlad performance as proof of his apparent chin; as stated above, what I took from it was the first proof that he struggles to recover in time. He was a sitting duck for a few rounds thereafter. Heart yeah, fair enough, once he got let off the hook and finally recovered, he showed a good amount of that to go and get a famous win. Which I absolutely credit him with. I think a prime Wlad, a Deontay Wilder or a fully fit Tyson Fury would have finished him off when he was laid back asking for it though. "Why wouldn't he be able to take one of Wilder's?" Well, Wilder would have gone all out flailing attack on him when he was in that position and probably got him out of there. That's why. Why Wlad couldn't, I don't know. He was 40 years old at the end of the day. What evidence at all, is there that Wilder has a shaky jaw? There is evidence to the contrary. Can you clarify the relevance of "before the Wilder fights"..? Are we eliminating them to make a point which you would like to be true in this instance, or am I missing something? He got up against Ruiz but he was out of the fight, drowning. It's much more about his powers of recovery than it is his heart. Although one could potentially question his desire to continue that night when it got to the end. I credited him in the post above, with that situation against Whyte. Although that is the one and only time where he did recover pretty well. I'd point to the calibre of opponent being lesser than the others we're discussing, but I guess that isn't so relevant in terms of his recovery. The rest I think I have covered fairly comprehensively, above and/or in my previous post and I clearly believe the evidence is there to back it up. I've pointed to it. Fury recovers remarkably in comparison to Anthony Joshua. That's a fact which I'd like to think you aren't disputing. Getting put down by a cruiserweight who catches you with a good one, then getting up, fairly unaffected and ramming your way to a win is very different to being there for the taking multiple rounds after the shot landed. That's besides the fact that the fight you refer to is almost a totally different version of Tyson Fury. Much greener. In contrast I clearly think it's a different Joshua we see today than in the Whyte fight also. But not for the better. The only things I'm crediting Wilder with in the third fight are a big pair of ****. That aside the assertion is simply that it's highly unlikely that Joshua gets through 12 without copping one from him. The evidence suggests he may well struggle to come back from that. That's all. N.B. Your highlights conveniently skip past the middle rounds where Joshua was a sitting duck. I think it was about round 10 when he came back to his senses and produced the stunning finish which earned my respect.
Well you appear to be very invested for someone who doesn't have an agends......... 1.Again you assert that you understand what Joshua is thinking despite the evidence showing otherwise...ie Joshua is having the rematch to try and get his belts back. Your opinion is not based on anything other than wishful thinking. 2.There are differing types of opinion. mine is based on evidence and what has happened in the past. yours not so much.... 3.Having a deeper resume means that he's faced a higher level of competition and therefore deatl with a greater level of adversity. and be more adaptive of making adjustments. something that Wilder has never demonstrated. 4.What about after getting floored by Vlad? or getting outboxed by Povetkin? because he's fought a higher level he's had to adapt to situations to overcome adversity. 5.Your merely repeating what I said in my previous post about Joshua becoming more defensive and? 6.It isn''t relevant because Vlad coulda shoulda doesn't mean anything. he didn't and he got stopped. stop using fallacy arguements it makes you look dim. 7.I've already clearly stated why Wilders power is overrated and that's because of lack of high level competition. if you don't understand this point then you don't know anything about boxing or your being selectvive when you apply your rules. The only decent fighter he fought was Fury who had been decked by a cruiser....Wilder had three attempts and failed. So again to assume he knocks all the top heavies out is asinine to say the least. 8.No I'm not talking nonsense I've followed the sport for over 35 years and I'm not a fanboy so can be more objective than someone like yourself.... 9.Again you need Fury to be an ATG in order to big up your man crush. The reality is Fury was very poor that night. He was static and getting hit far more than the first two fights despite you stating that he's the best mover. I never said Fury was feather fisted but he isn't anywhere near Wilder or Joshua in terms of KO power. this taking into account like Wilder his resume is thin. 10. We will never know about Wilder because he's untested against the other top 10 in the division. Your living in hyperthetical world where I'm living in reality. For the record I'm a fan not fanboy of Fury and Usyk but I'm still capable of being objective regarding both. 11.Fury has the potential to be an ATG but his resume is nowhere near that accolade. He's fought an ageing Vlad and beaten an untested Wilder and that's it. You're not an ATG from fighting two top guys please refer to Ali's resume for clarification..... It''s you who has the agends so that you can say Wilder was the second best and was only beaten by the best in Fury.Then you have to undermine Joshua for that to be more credible. this is where your not that smart and very transparent in your motives and I can easily pull your assertions apart. The jury is out on Fury being an ATG he would at least need to beat Usyk and Joshua to cement the claim that he's the best of the era. I agree he has that potential but until that actually happens then your just talking out of your biased arse. Wilder was always smoke and mirrors and you bought it.....it's hard but that's life. he was never that great. and the first real test he had he failed despite having three goes to get the job done....
1. I'm giving my opinion on how it looks and I think you'd have to try harder to believe that he really whole-heartedly wants this fight than you do to read between the lines that the available evidence gives us. Why would I wish for him not to want the fight? Two of the best in the division are having a rematch, I'm glad. I'm a boxing fan. It simply looks for all the world that he'd have been pretty pleased to get bailed out of it. He hasn't been so he's got to go with it, which he will, so fair play to him. 2. What evidence have you presented? I've done nothing but present evidence. I wouldn't make a point without any. Not so sure the same could be said of you. I think you see what you want to see. 3. Nah a greater resume means he has had a tougher and more challenging career thus far and has achieved more. It means very little for his chances for a one off fight in the future unless he showed something in the fights which makes him a more likely winner, as I clearly said. Pretty irrelevant then. 4. Already addressed the Wlad situation above. Astonishing that the old dog couldn't finish a guy who had nothing to give for 4-5 rounds. Povetkin was pre-loss Joshua also. Which is not the guy I'm talking about. I've been quite clear in that my entire point is about a now gun shy Joshua...which he was not at that time. 5. Not really sure what you're even talking about here. I can assure you I haven't repeated anything you've said, particularly as I disagree with most if not all of it. Feel free to clarify. 6. How is the fact that Joshua didn't recover until the 10th round a fallacy in this conversation? Do explain. The main point isn't about Wlad. It's about Joshua being there to be KO'd for a long period. Wlad didn't, others probably would have. It's literally the focal point of the discussion. Dim indeed, ironic. 7. Ok, you know more than everyone who's been in with him, sorry pal If you think guys go down how they do when Wilder knocks them out, when it's your average heavyweight puncher, then you'd be best to clue yourself up. Let's not get into the "You know nothing about boxing" stuff fella, because firstly it's immature and secondly, it's not going to end well for you, hasn't gone well thus far. N.B. I didn't say he knocks all the top heavyweights out. I said he knocks Joshua out. We've seen before it doesn't necessarily take a top heavyweight to do that. Don't put words in my mouth please. 8. Mate you read like the biggest Joshua fanboy I've seen. You say you dislike him, you definitely don't. 35 years all for what? Who am I supposed to be the fanboy of? I dislike everything about Deontay Wilder other than the heart and guts he showed in the third fight with Fury. As a person he's total trash and the same as a boxer. Got the detonator though. In contrast, I'm British and want every Brit to beat every American, regardless of any other circumstance. Never mind when it's Joshua who seems a decent chap vs Wilder who is a moron. So cut the crap. I'm being totally objective and speak based on evidence. You don't like it. 9. Nah he just is well on his way to establishing himself as one. Vast majority in all boxing circles who know a lot more of the sport than you do will tell you as much as that. Usyk already is one too, much more so than Fury (in general, not HW...yet). How's that for an agenda? He was far from very poor. Stinks of pure bitter hatred . There are many ways to skin a cat. Again, all good to talk about Fury's power but not Wilders, total hypocrisy hahaha. 10. We won't know about Wilder and Joshua likely, no. There's very little objective about you mate. You realised someone had presented too much fact for you to deal with and resorted to telling them they aren't objective, don't know about boxing etc because much like your hero when he gets buzzed, you knew you had nowhere to go. Utterly transparent. I pride myself on objectivity and honesty. I have wanted Joshua to do well in every fight he's been in. Went to see him fight live multiple times, including the Klitschko fight, but he doesn't look like the same guy since his first loss and that's plain to see. The change of trainer etc might be what it takes for him to get back there, but for me, he is mentally defeated and is trying his best to fight against that. Gun shy and struggles to recover from a good punch, tough ask for him. I'm a Fury fan too as he's another Brit and would be objective as needs be in any case, as I am with Joshua, he's not who the conversation is about though. Being objective also doesn't mean I have to deny greatness when we see it unfolding. Usyk I couldn't care less for other than admiring him as an ATG fighter. Again we're witnessing greatness and I have little negative to say about him. Don't particularly wish for him to win his fights but undeniably he may just win every one of them in the next few years. Fury the only doubt for me, but still give him a major chance. 11. I've never said he has the resume yet. He's not retired though is he? Big fights to come for him and he's a couple away from cementing himself as an ATG. We are watching greatness unfold when watching him though, I do believe that. I don't need to refer to anything, I know exactly what a great is and Fury is on his way as I said. Much to your dismay it seems. Nonetheless, that is totally beside the point of the conversation and I'm not here to big up Tyson Fury. As stated, I have absolutely no agenda. I don't need to make any excuses for Tyson Fury, the proof is in the pudding. Nor do I attach myself so closely to a sportsperson who I've never met that I would do such a thing even if they did need it . You evidently do have one though, as you blatantly contradicted yourself in order to stick to it. Until their respective losses, I have fancied AJ over Wilder the whole way through. So again, it's utter nonsense from you to say I have any sort of of agenda here. Losses have a big effect on some fighters, less of an effect on others and I think there has been evidence (which I have pointed out) since that points to Joshua's defeats having a really bad impact on him as a fighter, I don't like the changes he has made and I don't believe he will be as effective against the top fighters when employing them, we recently saw that this is probably the case. Equally I think there have been signs before and since the loss(es) which clearly indicate he recovers poorly when caught and in top end heavyweight boxing, that's not a good mixture. To clarify, Joshua or Usyk would be bigger and better wins on Fury's resume than Wilder x 3 is, since they themselves have much better CV's than Wilder. But that is again irrelevant to the conversation and is simply a case of you taking away from the point of the disagreement in order to detract from the fact that your argument doesn't really stack up. I don't know how many more times I can spell it out to you though that; I believe current Wilder would beat current Joshua in a boxing match. Do you understand? To be clear. I don't think Wilder has better wins, I don't think he has done more, I don't think he's a better person, I don't think he has better skills or technique, I don't think his standing will be as good as AJ's when they both retire....I simply believe he beats current Joshua. Hopefully that is very, very clear and agenda free for you. No more excuses to go off on a tangent when it's going wrong for you. I didn't say Fury is an ATG. I said he's on his way. I believe he'll get there. But I had better clarify that this is my opinion before you wet your panties and accuse me of "casting assertions" again Nope, Wilder was never that great, still isn't, just a good top 3 guy for most of this particular era, nothing special, just a couple of special qualities and very little else in his arsenal. So I fell for nothing and your waffling on about it means nothing. Still beats Joshua though. And regarding "your not that smart", surely even you can see the irony in that quote? (Hint: You're - You haven't used it correctly once). Let's not go there fella, it's petty and I'm unequivocally smarter than you.
It was Fury that ran crying twice at the fear of getting in the ring with Wladimir again, not the other way round.