How good was Pat Killen? I think I rarely saw a thread on this forum, that talked and appreciated the career of Patrick. Even tho he never fought for the title, he was a serious heavyweight contender from the 1880s, competing in the John L Sullivan era. He probably was one of, if not the hardest puncher in the 1880s / 1890s. 51 of his 54 wins came by way of Knockout. He holds a few good wins against some good contenders on his resume. He beat Lannon, Mervine Thompson (It is listed as a DQ loss, but in reality you can count this as a win for Killen) and he was the first to defeat Cardiff (something Sullivan couldn't do). His 2 losses are also debatable. One was a ridiculous DQ (he completely destroyed Thompson, but got disqualified by the referee for a stupid reason), and in his second loss against Mcauliffe, he came into the fight drunk. With those circumstances in his 2 losses, we can make a case, that Killen could've retired undefeated if he just stayed disciplined. There are a few points I would like to discuss here: 1. How good was Pat Killen, compared to the contenders of his era? Was Killen Top 5? 2. Why did Killen never fought for the title? 3. How would a matchup between Killen and Sullivan / Jackson go? (4. If you have some extra informations about his career, feel free to post them here) I hope by answering these 3 (4) points, we can learn a bit more about this forgotten contender.
1) I have him at numbers 5, 8, 7, 4, 3, 6, and 9 for 1885-91 respectively, so yes. 2) He lost a key fight to McAuliffe when he was ready 3)Don;t fancy him again either but he had a punchers chance, for sure.
1) He was very good and active from 1844-1890 when Sullivan was active and better than anyone he fought. Yes he was top 5, maybe #1 or #2 for a while. 2) I don't know and Sullivan was in his home state excuses don''t fly. Even Janitor might agree with this although is merely a statement. 3 ) Unknown, but Sullivan had mediocre results in the late 1880's. How he would do in a 10,15 or 20+ rounder is unknown. There is likely a time when Killen beat Sullivan when he's active. I think Jackson would beat Killen. He beat real good contenders in Slavin and drew with Goddard. Sullivan was not in ideal shape and fights super middle types, not undefeated 200 pound heavyweights which Killen was. When the fight is made 1885, 1885, 1887, or 1888 is key. I like Sullivan in the early years and Killen in the later years. He would be the best gloved puncher who ever landed on Sullivan, who chin is unknown vs. Puncher with gloves. Killen is one of best fighters never to get a title shot, but not the best. I'll ask around, especially the mid west historian who might know, a Minnesota scribe. His career is an unknown, and seldom talked about for example Tonto62 never heard of him and he knows his stuff. Following this thread.
Who do your Have at 1,2, and 3 and did Sullivan fight any of them? I would not out much stock in his fight with McAuififfe as " Killen reportedly entered the fight intoxicated and missed so wildly on his punches while drunk, that he fell and dislocated his right shoulder in the 2nd round, hence fighting the remainder of the fight with his left only--Source: Pittsburgh Post 9-25-1889 in interview with Killen's trainer for the fight, Tom Madden. Killen was against the ropes and bent over when McAuliffe delivered an uppercut with his left that put Killen down for the second and last time. " In other words he was too drunk to fight. But I would put stock in his fight with Cardiff as " Cardiff was knocked out cold by a Killen right hand in the fourth round according to Minneapolis Evening Journal 6/26/1888. "Cardiff was out for 16 seconds before he regained his feet." Both men wore two ounce gloves. Weights according to St Paul Daily Globe. Sullivan received a gift draw vs the same man: " According to the St Paul Daily Globe, Cardiff did most of the fighting and should have received the decision."
Killen himself challenged all-comers, with the exception of Sullivan, to a fight in 1887. Pat had a short prime but for a few years he was pretty near the top. Hard to guage his worth v's Mitchell and Burke but the Cardiff fights would seem to make them all very close.
If one delves a bit deeper than Boxrec, there is not much mention of an intoxicated Killen in contempory accounts. It is a key fight in evaluating Killen as is the Cardiff contests. Mind you, if he was drunk, you would have to ask why?
In 1888 I have only Sullivan and Jackson ahead of Pat, in 1887 Sullivan, Kilrain and Cardiff. 1889 1-Jackson 2-Sullivan 3-McAuliffe 4-Godfrey 5-Slavin 6-Killen
He was durunkand fell due to reports than he swung and and missed wildly in round one which lead to he falling and dislocating his shoulder. The trainer talk about his injury and I don't know where he was or what he was doing hours before the fight. Thanks, do you have 1888-1885 rankings? I never saw them from other historians? Regarding 1889 rankings I do agree with Peter Jackson being the best around but McAulifffe at #3??? No Sir, Killen KO'd him that year and before that Jackson in 1888. Before that another no name KO'd him in 1 round. Slavin Ko'd him in 1890. I don't see why he rated #3 in 1889 0r 1888, but that's your opinion. You may change it. I admit to being unfamiliar with his career and would rate Killen, Jackson, and Sullivan over him for sure in 1889.
I rate McAuliffe number three in 1889 because he ko'd Killen! Slavin defeating him later has no bearing on 1889. Joe had recent wins over Conley, Glover, Lees, Ryan and had gone 24 with Jackson in a decent effort. All just a matter of opinion.
