Who thinks Max Baer beats Liston

You're correct. My apologies.

Regardless, why would Williams be a cruiserweight? He was nowhere near the limit.

 

Any fighter Louis demolished, Liston would demolish. See how I can just flip things around with assumptions?

I am very confident that if Liston landed a bunch of flush bombs on a stationary, zero defense wide open target slugger like Buddy Baer he'd drop him like a sack of potatoes.

Liston KOd at least 13 opponents who were over the cruiser weight limit. He KOd multiple opponents who who over the limit and who were also over 6'1. Size wasn't ever a problem for him and his power didn't rapidly decrease against larger opponents. He also KOd fighters whose skills would make them look like Floyd Mayweather compared to freaking Buddy Baer and Carnera. Carnera wasn't even very durable and got dropped several times by several opponents besides Louis so I have no clue why you're mentioning him.

Liston has 25 KOs within the first 4 rounds. This means he ended 46% or nearly half his professional bouts early with multiple first round KOs. So it's a fact that Liston had tremendous one punch power and that he was an excellent finisher comparable to Louis, if not even better. The only man who managed to go 12 rounds with Liston was the fast and defensive Eddie Machen who was only fighting to survive.

I asked you to show me the fight where Louis brutally rearranges a guy's face with a jab giving them tons of stitches? I notice you dodged the question. Liston definitely had the stronger jab and that's not even debatable. Listons jab was stronger than some guys right hands.

I have posted irrefutable data and there is absolutely nothing crazy in suggesting that Liston could stop Baer early. Baer was not hard to hit, was around the same size as Williams, and had even worse defense. Sure Baer had a better chin, but again, Baer was stopped in a mere 4 rounds by Louis. Liston hits just as hard as Louis if not more, threw excellent punches with good technique, had a stronger jab, was like a crazed shark smelling blood when his opponent was hurt and a superb finisher. The only things Louis had over Liston was hand speed and you have yet to prove otherwise.

 

No one, I hope.

 

Sorry to wade in but another point worth mentioning in this is that Max was terrified of Joe and had to be coerced out to fight, iirc.

If this is true, and I'm posting without source so it might not be, that bodes badly for him with Sonny in the opposite corner. Who hit harder, faster, better jab, better finisher are up for debate.

Who was the scarier proposition isn't, for any reasonable person.

 

I was going to slant a post exactly this way myself. It's entirely feasible Liston gets a big leg up here. Max was one of those guys who wasn't exactly enamored with boxing despite his successes.

 

Top post!
In 69 fights Louis fought18 men 200lbs and over and stopped 16 of them.
In 54 fights Liston fought 26 men 200lbs and over and stopped 21 of them.
One of those Liston failed to stop was Ali twice.

 

I mean, Baer fight shows Louis having extremely powerful jab. I'm not sure if Liston's one is "definitely stronger and not even debatable".

I think that Louis and Liston had comparable punching power, while Louis was much quicker.

 

Whether they were even or Liston hit harder, the point was it certainly isn't crazy to suggest Liston stops Baer early. I'm not even saying this is the most likely scenario, but it's certainly possible. Especially if Baer gets intimidated. I have no idea why this has to become such a long drawn out discussion. Liston is a horrible matchup for Baer and anyone honest knows it.

 

Then no disagreement here

 

You are factually wrong about bout the weight.

You don't want to admit you were wrong about height or reach.


Hey, if you want to continue to lap at the nuts of a poster who made sexual comments about young boys...you do you.. pervert.

 

Did you really bump a week old thread to spout this non-sense?