How many modern-type HWs did Ezzard Charles fight?

I learnt how to use sites like boxrec before I started using this forum, so don't worry about me - it's not a progress for me.

Your life is quite sad if you think these cases are interesting.

 

Moore was only 16-0 with 12 KOs against those big mean 209 plus pounders

 

Lol, I just put a random number cuz I wanted to see the results hahaha

 

I'm not rambling about anything i am pointing out the flaw in your very carefully chosen poundage. It was chosen to omit Haynes obviously so you've already boxrec'd all viable candidates and know the answer to your own question.

The obvious retort is how many 215 and over pounders had Usyk beaten prior to popping up? He made comfortable work of Chisora at a weight disadvantage of 40 odd pounds then convincingly defeated the 240 pound Joshua.

This is why people match Charles against the guys you mentioned. Quite a few believe skill can get him home over some of them. That he hasn't beaten a plethora of your perceived modern type heavyweight doesn't mean he can't be competitive or indeed beat some.

 

The thread probably would have been more productive if it had simply been, "Ezzard Charles Never Faced A Modern-Sized Heavyweight, And That's A Serious Problem." With clear definitions of what a modern sized heavyweight is, and reasons for that belief.

That would have been more straightforward than asking which opponents were over 215 pounds...but with the caveat that a 217 pound man doesn't count as over 215 pounds. And then the stuff about modern cruisers, who dehydrate and don't train like fighters in Charles's day.

We are left to guess about the criteria. I don't think the thread is going to tell us much the way it's set up. Although maybe it's not intended to?

 

Completely agree.

"Ezzard Charles has sparse dealings against good heavyweights around the 210+ mark. I'm surprised how often he is put forward in fantasy matches against such men as i'm not convinced he has the record to warrant it".

No beating around the bush or feigning ignorance.

 

And that's not a bad argument, even. It's worth discussing. It would be nice if the thread was designed for it.

 

Or, for that matter:

Take a "modern" year when all the top heavyweights were lean -- probably in the 90s or early 2000s. This eliminates the argument that it's not fair because modern fighters are fat. Average the heights and weights of the top 10. There's your cutoff. Point out that Charles only fought X number contenders of this size. Clear-cut.

Or, if you want to avoid the steroid discussion, too, pick a time in the 70s or early 80s. Average heavy in that era was weight X, height X. Charles didn't fight many of those guys. Again, clear cut. No complicating factors about cruisers trying to make weight, 217 pound men who are actually 207 pounds despite what the scales say, etc.

 

Fair calls all around.

 

Cool. Which year was that?

To answer your question, I don't know how he'd do as-is, since we don't have an example of a fighter that small -- trained like a 50s heavyweight -- going for it in the 80s. If he chose to either fight more conservatively, like Young, or bulk up like Spinks, that would make the comparison easier. If he did either of those things, or both, then I'd expect him to do well enough.

I think you're going to get more interesting answers if you pick times close enough to Charles's own that we're not guessing blind, because the divisions were similar. I'd feel more confident making predictions of Ezzard's performance in the 70s than the 80s; never mind the 90s.

 

Again, I think talking about cruiserweights is a dead end. Haye was a cruiserweight. His rehydrated, heavyweight trained body was solidly way above 200. Even Evander, who fought in the old 190 pound cruiser division, ended up comfortably about the same size as Tyson once he used the training methods available to him. Usyk is also bigger than 200.

By contrast, others only get fat when they move up. And then again, yet more cruiser-eligible fighters (arguably Byrd) remain at heavyweight for the money or other reasons.

It's a crapshoot where a cruiser falls in the heavyweight division. Best to talk about actual heavyweights.

Just my $0.02.

 

I’ll repeat my question. If being heavier was a massive advantage why didn’t the big men of the day dominate? There were fighters who weighted 230. They just couldn’t compete. There are those here who believe those men just didn’t exist. Most just couldn’t crack the top ten. So I’ll ask again…why did we go six decades between Primo and Bowe before we saw a shw champ?