(LOL) Ryan Garcia Is VERY HAPPY That Clenelo Got Schooled...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by JOKER, May 9, 2022.



  1. Betyabeatyaup

    Betyabeatyaup Active Member Full Member

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    Do you really think Canelo could have out jabbed the guy with longer arms, the control of range and the faster footwork? I think you’ve watched a stoned Mike Tyson make a dumb video about Canelo jabbing.
    Canelo needs to slip and work the body, that’s the only way to success for him.
     
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  2. Betyabeatyaup

    Betyabeatyaup Active Member Full Member

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    No, you can have a 12-0 fight that was very close and competitive but clear. I’m not that guy. I understand the round by round scoring, and most rounds in this fight were close. If you score the rounds the same everytime in this fight I have to question how honest you are being, because there were very few clear rounds or clear punches landed.
     
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  3. Betyabeatyaup

    Betyabeatyaup Active Member Full Member

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    It must be a very ‘team cheerleader’ mentality to bring emotional baggage from a previous boxing contest into another one, that would make honest scoring very difficult.

    Canelo had good defense until the later rounds where he looked to be struggling with his energy, and even then he never really took anything flush.
    Canelo can win the rematch with some more feinting and some head movement when moving inside to focus on the body attack. I don’t think the jab is there as a weapon against Bivol, Bivol is too good with his. If Canelo can move his head and land some heavy counters inside those jabs, he could stop the jab in that way. Canelo has shown growth before so I see no reason why he can’t add these things to his next game plan.
     
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  4. MidniteProwler

    MidniteProwler Fab 4. Mayor of Aussie Boxing Full Member

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    Say what you want about Canelo but as far as Ryan Garcia's tweets that really is typical Millennial behavior just a sensitive soy boy holding a grudge like a woman.
     
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  5. DynamicMoves

    DynamicMoves Well-Known Member Full Member

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    You're right, Bivol is a better jabber and thus clearly Canelo should just abandon the jab. Just stop setting up those uppercuts that he had limited success with.
     
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  6. DoubleJab666

    DoubleJab666 Dot, dot, dot... Full Member

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    Because of the few punches thrown, Bivol threw the majority and threw them more accurately with a better connect percentage - that's punches landed and effective aggression in the plus column for Bivol. He was controlling the range and distance with his jab and footwork - so that's ring generalship in his favour too - and when Canelo tried to work him back to the ropes (where Canelo wanted the fight to take place to execute his game plan), Bivol more often than not managed to pivot away; so his defence was generally more effective.

    And this was the pattern for the vast majority of the fight. I gave Canelo rounds 4 and 9. In the closer rounds, I gave them to Bivol because of what I've outlined above. It was a reasonably easy fight to score because the pattern on the contest remained largely unaltered from round 1 thru 12. Bivol didn't change what he was doing because it was working, evidenced by the fact Canelo ended up focussing on non-scoring punches to the arms.

    'If you score the rounds the same everytime in this fight I have to question how honest you are being' makes no sense at all. An honest assessment is as likely to be consistent and repeatable as one established through bias alone...
     
  7. Maidanas Gun Tattoo

    Maidanas Gun Tattoo Well-Known Member Full Member

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    What Canelo said about Garcia came back to haunt him. Maybe if he wasn’t so focused on golfing then he would have been better prepared. The truth is, Canelo started riding his own jock a little too hard and got comfy in his silk pajamas. He got high on the praise of all his fans constant yapping of beating 3 undefeated champions and forgot what the grind is really about.
     
  8. Betyabeatyaup

    Betyabeatyaup Active Member Full Member

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    Hold on a second.. your initial post emphasised how rounds are scored on a round to round basis, and how people make the mistake of scoring a fight based on the whole. Why then, are you now talking about the ‘pattern of the fight’? That combined with your consistent scoring in a fight with many swing rounds is clear evidence that you’ve let your bias cloud your perception here. There’s a recency bias going on with a lot of people here because Bivol closed the show while Canelo wilted at the end.

    I’m not interested in you believing fantasy compubox numbers, Bivol landed almost nothing in those first four rounds and Canelo was very clearly the heavier puncher. Canelo started the fight faster than he usually does and that’s where he put his energy. Bivol was mostly on the defensive, there were only signs of what he was going to do in the later rounds - in spurts. For the most part he absorbed Canelo in those first four rounds, and while he didn’t take much damage he certainly received more than he put out. Canelo partially landing punches in those rounds was far more damaging than the occasional jab Bivol would land. I remember as early as the third round I could see that Canelo was in trouble in this fight, but we still have to score rounds properly. The scores on here that I could see scoring the first three rounds for Bivol were funny for me at the time. It’s just odd to see that ridiculous type of scoring still being defended by someone so long after the fight, I assumed that the irrational emotions would die down and on repeated viewings the serious boxing fans would see the fight more accurately. Plenty had this as a close fight, and I’ve seen plenty pick Canelo in the rematch.

    The way some people talk about it on here it makes it sound like it was a Calzaghe-Lacy style domination. 10-2 Bivol is just pure silliness. There were three clear Bivol rounds and two clear Canelo rounds. Bivol and Canelo both changed throughout the fight. So 10-2 and talking about the ‘pattern of the fight’? Honestly I’m not interested in hearing your opinion any longer on this fight, I can’t take it seriously.
     
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  9. Betyabeatyaup

    Betyabeatyaup Active Member Full Member

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    Do you disagree? He’s a kid still, a YouTuber who has clearly struggled to commit to boxing, a physical talent with a mean left hook.
    He knows about as much as Logan Paul about boxing. He’s not exactly a master technician or a student of boxing is he, so why are you confused about my comment? I’d take almost any no name YouTube boxing coach over Ryan Garcia to train me if I had the choice.
     
  10. Betyabeatyaup

    Betyabeatyaup Active Member Full Member

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    He should use the jab as a feint only, and be more like the old Canelo who would throw four punch combinations instead of the constant feint and single power shot. Bivol is too good to get hit by that when he’s fighting defensively, and Canelo needs to throw the right hand over the top of Bivol’s jab. In previous Bivol fights he often got caught by flush counter rights over his jab, Canelo couldn’t do that in the same way that guys like Pascal and Barrera did to Bivol. The uppercut is the wrong punch for Bivol, it’s almost like Canelo didn’t do his homework.
    In the last few fights we’ve had Canelo throwing his bombs and then simply waiting while he defends the return. Bivol himself pointed out this weakness after the fight. That waiting gave Bivol the permission to just go forwards as he likes after Canelo had thrown. He didn’t have to worry about a Canelo counter.

    Canelo focus on the body with more combination punching, and throwing counters as Bivol moves in to keep him honest and possibly hurt him. There’s a very clear way for Canelo to win the rematch, and the scoring will be more generous to him next time as it rebounds from the bias for Bivol in the first fight. Expectations are a hell of a perception distorter.
     
  11. DoubleJab666

    DoubleJab666 Dot, dot, dot... Full Member

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    Nice attempt to reframe. I will now dismantle it.

    1. I said there was a pattern to the fight - there always is when looked at 'in the round' - I did not say that's what I used to score any of the rounds. FAILED

    2. I didn't mention compubox; I saw for myself who landed what, how often and to what degree of success. FAILED

    3. 'Bivol landed almost nothing in those first four rounds and Canelo was very clearly the heavier puncher' - so now you lean on (inaccurate) punch stats (without actually knowing them or even trying to assess for yourself) and a totally subjective 'heavier puncher' analysis FAILED

    4. 'I remember as early as the third round I could see that Canelo was in trouble in this fight, but we still have to score rounds properly.'... and this from someone who said it was a '8-4 type of fight'... meaning you didn't actually score it, otherwise you would have said 'I scored it 8-4' FAILED

    5. 'Plenty had this as a close fight, and I’ve seen plenty pick Canelo in the rematch.' - plenty as in a reasonably significant minority of people who scored it, agreed. But a minority nonetheless. Who we might pick in the rematch is completely irrelevant to the matter in hand. You're now scatter-gunning points hoping one finds the bullseye FAILED

    https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...f-bivol-vs-canelo.686305/page-2#post-21704247

    6. 'There’s a recency bias ( that phrase reminds me of when I used to read Twitter, so vogue) going on with a lot of people here because Bivol closed the show while Canelo wilted at the end' - no, I scored it round-by-round the next day. What happened in round 12 had no impact on how I viewed round 1 and so on.

    The fact you made this point clearly highlights what I suspected from the get-go. You haven't scored the fight just relied on an overall impression (hence the '8-4 type of fight' comment) which is really where the arguments you make now fall down and the statement: 'clear evidence that you’ve let your bias cloud your perception here' is more applicable to you than me FAILED

    7. Honestly I’m not interested in hearing your opinion any longer on this fight, I can’t take it seriously - so why reply? FAILED

    TL/DR: I scored the fight, you haven't. This single factor invalidates everything you've said.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2022
  12. JamesLightsOutToney

    JamesLightsOutToney Respect to all boxers Full Member

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    How many punches you think he should he target to throw in total if the rematch were to go 12 rounds (compared to the 495 he threw this fight)?
    Also, do you think Canelo will accept a rematch or will he do something else? Taking it to 168 might help him if it hurts Bivol or if there is a rehydration clause, but I think it's very risky for Canelo legacy-wise. Beating Bivol there would probably still leave criticism saying the rematch should have been in the same weight as the first fight. And if he loses, then he has no claim at dominating any weight division in his career, though he would still be the 2nd best current 168er by a good margin.
     
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  13. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    If he beats Bivol at 168, it'll lead to a 3rd fight probably at 175 for bragging rights. If Bivol beats him in a rematch at 168, he's an ATG and could become Undisputed in two different weight classes at the same time. I doubt there will be any rehydration clauses regardless. If Bivol can make 168 he would be able to rehydrate to his normal fight night weight as would Canelo. But I think it's a better fight at 168 because Bivol would likely be fighting a better version of Canelo at his weight as the challenger which much more to gain if he wins.
     
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  14. elmaldito

    elmaldito Skillz Full Member

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    Boxing won big ending the corrupt canelo dec cycle.
     
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  15. JamesLightsOutToney

    JamesLightsOutToney Respect to all boxers Full Member

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    Fair enough. I hope you are right that it will happen and without rehydration clause.
    I still think that legacy wise, it is by far the biggest risk Canelo would take at least since the first fight with GGG, if not since the beginning of his career
    We ll see
     
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