Sonny Liston vs Oleksandr Usyk

I like this

 

I'd call Uysks resume superior, considering most of the CWs Usyk fought would be HWs in Listons era.

 

In fairness, the cruiserweights who Usyk beat were the same size or even bigger than a lot of Sonny’s heavyweight opponents. Not saying this is an argument to favor Usyk. Just pointing out an observation

 

All of Liston's best wins--Patterson, Williams, Foley, Machon, and even Valdez, at least started well below the modern cruiser limit.

Ali started out at about 190 or so.

Leotis Martin started out at 160.

Marty Marshal was 180 when he broke Liston's jaw.

Uysk has the same height and reach as Ali, and now fights at a higher weight.

For the sake of this match-up, you can throw the cruiser/heavy dichotomy out the window.

And yup, I'm picking Usyk. His competition is just better. And I don't believe Liston ever even fought a southpaw.

 

He actually fought a few. Gerard Zech being one of them and who was also a very large heavy at 6’5” and around 220. But he wasn’t very good

 

Good knowledge, there.

I amend my statement: he never fought a good southpaw.

 

It’s cool. I don’t think he fought many. I just knew Of at least one

 

Hypothetically we never was able to see a Prime Liston either if he was already in his 30s tearing up the division and 40s facing Ali.

 

I’ll admit, I’m a Liston fan but this is a very good take - and, at the very least, for better or worse. the body will be Liston’s choice and more available target in the early rounds. Even against the best of movers, Liston’s ever pumping stretch arm strong jab will count for something.

Even if is very close or Usyk slightly up, - which is reasonable to forecast, Liston will duly impress and accrue steady points with his own boxing skills and eventually catch up in the latter rounds for a UD or late round stoppage.

 

It is reasonable to say Usyk fought guys of comparable size to Liston's competition.
That he now weighs a little more than a peak & 1960's Ali yes.
But using the lightest weights past HWs came in as does not show what guys usually were or faced.

So we can say Usyk ever with little campaigning at HW shows what he can do against moderate sized historical HWs.
How much boxing might have progressed-or how important size is-are among the ambiguities refarding how good usyk is today at HW.

I like Usyk & would root for the smaller, greater work ethic man against Fury.
He beats a well prepared Fury, that means a lot.
Less so if he beats a limited slugger like Wilder.

However far that nuclear right hand got him, a great boxer beating a 1 dimensional slugger will mean much less than beating a large, highly skilled fighter like Fury.

Usyk might well beat Liston; I can see the arguments either way.

 

Tough one. Hard to predict really.

 

I personally fancy Usyk. He's not had too much trouble with big hard hitting guys before, whereas Liston certainly had a hassle with a mobile, elusive heavyweight in ali. And I do believe that Usyk is actually bigger than Ali was at that time. I don't put much weight on Usyk beating Wilder as a measuring stick, given that my opinion of Wilder is fairly low. I feel Joshua > Wilder.

 

OK and? All of Usyk's opponents with the exception of 2 below the modern cruiser limit and most stayed that way as well.

Liston did face a lot of cruiserweight opponents, but they were also the best available at the time and he did it while clearing the division. I can't criticize him for this.

Unless he was 190 when they fought, it's irrelevant.

It's 2022 are people STILL bringing up the Martin and Marshall losses? They're meaningless unless we're using a Liston in his 7th pro fight, or a Liston aged anywhere from 40 to 47, in which case I'd wholeheartedly favor Usyk.

In his last fight he weighed about 8 pounds more than Ali did in his first fight with Liston. Not exactly groundbreaking. Usyk also fought nothing like Ali.

 

This is a head to head match up. It isn't about "criticizing." Liston had his jaw busted by a 180 pound man. Ali was about 204 or 206 when the two times he beat Liston--a mere handful of pounds over Usy's opponents that you are dismissing.

The Martin and Marshall losses are not meaningless. Marshall could have been his first fight and it still shows that a 180 pound man is capable of breaking his jaw.

 

Still love the idea of this fight…