Expert opinions on Marciano VS Liston

This is why Iron Mike would have at least as hard a time as Frazier fighting Liston. Not to mention Norton.

 

This, except I think if old man Louis' jab gave Rocky fits for so much of their fight, Liston turns his face into a grotesque mask...

Liston and Frazier would LOVE Rocky.

That said, hard to argue too stridently against an undefeated record. Rocky was a top 10 ATG, no doubt.

 

Sometimes fights don’t end how you would think. This is probably one of them. I def feel Ike v Yua is the blue print for Liston v Marciano. No one prob thought that would go the distance either. Frazier v Marciano would be amazing. Probably the best HW fight you could make. Plenty of knock downs and just a drag out war. I’d pick Marciano there.

 

Liston wasn't fighting b-level local circuit guys in the same damn arena for half his career before graduating to geriatrics trying to coax their legs into lasting the rounds.

Liston's career lasted SEVENTEEN YEARS. Marciano was in and out in SEVEN YEARS, a carefully curated selection of opponents on the straightest path to the vulnerable crown. How many defeats would The Rock have accumulated had he gone on 10 more years... 10 more years of meeting different styles, increasingly younger fighters, the wear and tear of camp after camp, fight after fight? His delicate frame was already breaking down.

 

so a guy who takes dives, has drug addiction and weak shoulder is gonna beat one of the toughest sobs in the game. idts

Marciano tore ali’s arms in a spar just by punching them. Sonny would have quit when his arms started filling with blood and bruised.

 

that’s right and Rock had the slick head movement to frustrate liston.

 

I wasn't claiming Rocky was purely a volume puncher. I was just addressing the Walcott fights.

Jefferies is one of the most bizarre cases. He was huge compared to the vast majority of opponents (and many were fairly shopworn and old), was big and strong and aggressive on the front foot, yet it often took him a long time to stop guys (but he has more KOs than decisions). This gives me the impression he was either very sloppy and inaccurate or he just didn't hit that hard and overwhelmed guys with his pressure, durability, and size. Think maybe a Chuvalo or Tex Cobb type of guy with better management fighting old versions of Roy Jones and Michael Spinks.

 

Well that much I can agree with, if Rocky gets past Listons jab and doesn't get stopped early, it probably would look like a Tua vs Ike fight.

Im just not sold on the idea Rocky gets past the jab or avoids getting stopped in the first place.

 

All 3 of those boxers were more accurate than Rocky. For Tyson it depends on if Liston can control the range and pace and overcome the speed difference and Tyson's fast dash-ins. Whoever lands the first big hit or combination is probably going to have a huge advantage. Somewhat close fight I think as long as Tyson isn't intimidated or is forced to think and hesitate getting his head snapped by that ramrod jab.

For Frazier, Liston has only the hook and body shots to worry about and I'd favor Liston 7/10 to dismantle Fraziers and stop him by the mid rounds.

Norton wasn't short, he was taller than Liston and had an underrated jab and good accuracy, but Liston wins regardless.

 

I think it was a shame Sonny was shrouded in so much mystery.

Because We did not see Liston land any big fights as an ex champion, there is no evidence he really was better than what happened to him in Maine and Miami when he started to take punches back.

Sonny never sought a competitive fight after losing the title.

All champions reach that point where the opponents start fighting back. It happened to Louis and Tyson and Ali.

we need to have seen Sonny against more elite fighters as an ex champion than we got to see him against to tell us if he could even cope with Rocky.

cutting through guys like Harris and Patterson in one way traffic is no gage in all time great terms. You need to see give and take.

 

It was not a desperate punch. It was a premeditated counter.

If Walcott was put to sleep half as long in the first round, as he had been in the 13th, the ref still would have counted to a hundred before joes eyes opened. You can’t get more knocked out.

A connection like that at any point of the fight is an instant kayo.

Unconscious for 30 seconds. One minute. Two minutes. Depending on the time of the fight. It’s still all more than ten seconds.

To say the same impact wouldn’t have a kayo effect earlier on is a nonsense.

 

Marciano not only won more title fights than Liston, but had more title points. He had a longer career at the championship level.

 

I think the slow pace and frequent clinching had something to do with it as well. But yes, Jeffries's power was likely overrated. Or perhaps he really was sloppy, albeit slowly improving.

Jeffries and Johnson stood above their contemporaries, so in that sense, I don't know about the Tex Cobb or Chuvalo comparison. But neither man would be able to beat Michael Spinks in a modern ring.