Would Jimmy Young have the success against Frazier that he had against the other greats he fought?

Frazier's relentless output, pressure and intensity would undoubtedly overcome Young I believe.

In fact, the very antidote to Young's own style might well have been the exact style and power that Joe brought to the table.

Young was like a "less is more" type fighter, not overly active in offense but, in balance, accenting on defensive measures to ensure that his opponent connected that much less on him than he did them. Frazier was not at all the type of fighter that type of style/strategy would work on.

Joe's uncomplicated though effective style, along with his aggression, power and durability, were well suited to negating and overcoming the skill sets of even the most elite boxers - and in this case it is reasonably assumed that Young does not even have the punch to at least deter Joe momentarily.

Shavers obviously KO'd Young in their first fight and still managed to drop Jimmy in the rematch (in round 4 I recollect). Frazier's high volume output, accuracy and pressure makes the likelihood of Joe landing his own, single money shots that much greater than was the case for Shavers.

Of course Joe doesn't have to hit quite as hard as Earnie or necessarily land a random Sunday best because he will be landing a lot more shots anyway - and they will all be hard enough, wearing Young down and setting Jimmy up for even more, ever accumulating punishment with each successive round. Joe's a very good chance for later round KO/Stoppage IMO.

 

^ this is why people lose money betting on fights!

No thought process; way too much hype that is not due

 

WHAT ABILITIES?

and Stander in no way remotely boxed like Jimmy

It wasn't until Jimmy upped his game that he went on to whip the cream of the crop; punchers, boxers, champs, ex champs, future champs

Frazier doesn't have the guns to beat Jimmy. Foreman himself didnt have the guns to do it

and Frazier, with his ONE gun wouldn't either because it's one shot at a time

Ali fought stupid in the first fight because he lay on the ropes in too many rounds and played around too much. Had he been in better condition and come in with a better fight plan instead of under estimating Joe (clumsy ugly Frazier will fall in six) the bout would probably be called in Ali's favor.

 

Young would stand the same amount of chance a Philly cheesesteak would stand with my second ex-wife. ZERO. Absolute zero.

 

Jimmy's awkwardness is only exacerbated by Frazier letting Young set no rhythm. Frazier's style is meant to make fighters awkward, Frazier is poison for Young.

 

Duh. I was just showing you that Frazier can throw multiple shots besides a hook.

His ability to corner, pressure, and break down several of the division's finest counter punchers, movers, and technicians. Young wouldn't even be the 2nd best he faced for boxers like that.

Frazier had the guns to beat Ali, Quarry, Ellis, Machen, and Mathis. All of those boxers are on Youngs level of skill if not superior in some ways.

Young didn't have the guns to beat Shavers in 2 attempts, Cooney, or even Roy Williams.

You have never seen Frazier fight if you're claiming he only threw one hook at a time. I'm having a hard time taking you seriously now. Frazier threw very sharp flurries of punches to the head and body. Seriously watch his fights.

Well Young couldn't beat an even worse version of Ali so what's the excuse for that? You're going out of your way to downplay everything Frazier did and hyping up young more than he deserves.

 

what do you mean, he couldnt beat Ali? He whipped his ass in front of everyone, embarrassed him, took 12 of the 15 rounds EASY!

You HAVE heard of robberies before, haven't you?

Do you not recognize this as a robbery?

Let's not pretend as so many do

It's a game of scoring and although Joe was as determined as they come, it's just his one gun against Jimmy's smarts, and boxing wizardry

It might be Pernell - JC Chavez once more.

It might even be worse.

TOO MUCH JIMMY YOUNG!

and by Too much Jimmy Young, this is not the mere babblings of some incoherent, mindless, fanatic.

Having the elusiveness of a young Ali, a boxing genius Ali COULD have become and without giving his opponent his body, without laying on the ropes taking unnecessary punishment and chances,, Jimmy would have succeeded where Ali failed points wise

Seriously, this is an easy fight for Jimmy because of the way he bested the most powerful bruisers of his day which is more than I could say for Frazier

with Stander & Quarry, neither man had much in the way or ring intelligence, and so neither could last long since they were simply fighting Joe's fight on the inside.

Jimmy however, with his durability combined with his HIGH ring IQ, would be a whole different animal, and although he wouldnt hurt Joe, he would do to him what he did to Ali, Lyle, Dunn, Foreman, and Norton

 

Yep, sticking your head through and outside the ropes to avoid being hurt and/or prevent scoring punches landing on you is absolute genius and the stuff of an elite fighter unequivocally seizing the title - as true ATGs do. If Jimmy’s head goes through the ropes vs Joe it will more than likely have been punched through and won’t be returning any time soon. LOL.

 

Young would be stopped by any version of Frazier pre Manila. Joe won't permit Jimmy the time or the room to box. Frazier could zero in on Young's body early to cut him down.
Not a good matchup for Jimmy.

 

He didn't beat Ali. Even if you ignore the fact some rounds were hard to score due to his extremely cautious style and overlooked sticking his head out the ropes, he certainly didn't win 12/15 rounds. That's ridiculous, and I'm a Young fan. I don't even think the biggest Young fanboys would say he won that many rounds.

You keep saying Joe's "one gun" as if all he has is his hook even though I showed you footage of Frazier using several punches besides the hook: a jab, left uppercut, right uppercut, body shots, right hooks to the head and body, combination punching, etc. It's not about my opinion vs yours, you're flat out wrong. Joe didn't simply spam hooks all day or he wouldn't have made it as an amateur boxer, let alone become champ.

You have no idea what you're talking about and you are ignoring what's right there on screen that multiple people have pointed out to you. You are indeed a babbling fanatic.

 

Yeah that’s one of the reasons I didn’t score the fight for Young, whenever he was hurt or in any sort of trouble remotely he’d always duck out of the ropes, and they should’ve been considered knockdowns.

Also, whenever he’d counter Ali with flurries, many of them would hit below the belt. Others scored those flurries for him. I didn’t because they were illegal. He should’ve been penalized for this as well.

 

Young's performance against Ali might just be the most overrated in the history of boxing. Ali was there for the taking and Young couldn't pull the trigger. He had to lean through the ropes to escape the attacks of an old, fat, disinterested Ali, but he's going to evade the animal that was prime Frazier for 15 rds? Nah.

 

Well according to Mark, all Frazier can do is throw one hook at a time and Young would easily adapt and see through his obvious direct attack pattern. Somehow Young losing to a fat, old Ali is more impressive than Frazier beating a young mobile Ali.

 

Excellent points.

And Young was like 5-6 years younger than Norton and Ali, the latter two past prime while Young was in his own prime when he fought them.

Jimmy had some very admirable qualities as a fighter - slick D, fast hands, no mean chin but he still wasn’t the whole package IMO - too negative, and that’s not just not a personal take on his style, his negativity hurt him manifestly in the ring from a technical standpoint as far as scoring goes, including less than ideal output. Putting his head outside the ropes really served to punctuate that negativity as I saw it.

While definitely having his moments, he simply didn’t do enough to warrant crying foul re his losses to Ali and Norton IMO.

If Jimmy was as good as some would have him, he would’ve stepped it up and won those bouts without any doubt attached.

As I understand, Frazier pretty much dominated and suffocated Young in sparring - but it was just sparring and partners are sometimes expected to assume certain “roles” to allow the Champ to hone specific areas of their own game.

Can’t recall, did Joe or Jimmy have anything to say re their sessions? If they did, I’m sure you more learned folks, including yourself Swag, would remember.

 

Everyone has made good points so far but i just want to ask, Young did deal with the pressure of Ken Norton very well. Norton is a very good pressure fighter especially against boxers, does this have any relevance to this contest ?

The issue i have though is that Young only has 11 stoppages in his 35 wins, and although Young is a very good defensive fighter. He's not really fleet footed and hasn't got the power to stop Frazier coming at him.

The fighters who gave Frazier problems outside of Ali of course, were Bonavena who was a brawler/hard puncher, and obviously Foreman another hard puncher.

Fighters like Ellis, Quarry, who were skillful boxers Frazier ate them up for breakfast. And honestly i think Quarry or Ellis vs Young would be close fights.

Overall Young wouldn't be able to keep Frazier off him, it's a bad style match up for the defensive low output Young vs the relentless swarmer Frazier. Foreman may of tired vs Young but unlike Foreman, Frazier would be there in his face getting stronger and stronger round by round, if this is 15 rounds i favour Frazier by late stoppage. If this is a 12 rounder i'll go with Frazier on points something like 8-4.