The Best of Ye Olde Timers H2H" Greb, SRR, Langford, Armstrong &...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Entaowed, Jun 15, 2022.


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  1. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Throw in whomever else you wish.
    Maybe Duran too for a more recent man in this mold.
    Here let's let them come in at whatever weight they want.
    A neutral rule set, 15 rounds.

    Sam was 175-180 at his best, so should be be favored?
    Although Greb was barely taller he was normally 165.
    Armstrong would at most be 160 right?
    SRR would be ~ 160-I think he was likely best in *absolute* terms when not struggling to mkake WW-unless being a little heavier benefited him.

    Who would you favor, broadly against all comers...
    And if they had a tournament between them?
    Would SRR have a stylistic disadcantage against these mostly swarmer ATGs?

    EDIT: Fitzsimmons is the right weight to throw him in too.
    How would he do against these great swarmers, & SRR?
    In what order would you rank their results against each other?
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2022
    Entaowed, Jun 15, 2022
    Entaowed, Jun 15, 2022
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  2. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Greb and Langford would be too much for the rest of that group.

    I edge Greb over Langford, but I'm not sure. I don't think Greb ever faced someone so dangerous.

    I rate Fitz's chances against Greb and Langford, but maybe I'm just crazy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2022
    BitPlayerVesti, Jun 15, 2022
    BitPlayerVesti, Jun 15, 2022
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  3. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Thanks, but did you mean "Fitz"? I will edit him in at no more than 165 he is a natural to consider.
    Why not have SRR in the running?
     
    Entaowed, Jun 15, 2022
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  4. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yeah, Greb and Langford were too big at their bests for SRR, Leonard and Armstrong. I think Fitzsimmons has a case against them, Greb in particular due to styles.

    I think that Greb has been more consistent than Sam, so he should be favored, but peak Langford was a monster. If we take absolute best versions of all of them, I think Sam would prevail.
     
    70sFan865, Jun 15, 2022
    70sFan865, Jun 15, 2022
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  5. Tockah

    Tockah Ingo's Bingo Full Member

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    Peak Langford, from accounts of reporters and his opponents, is a monster inside the ring.
     
    Tockah, Jun 15, 2022
    Tockah, Jun 15, 2022
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  6. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He does look like the one in footage we have as well.
     
    70sFan865, Jun 15, 2022
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  7. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Mauling Mormon’s banned Full Member

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    Sam Langford stomps the entire P4P Mount Rushmore. If it’s his era I see no other possibility, if he rolls the dice and stays on Greb throwing regardless of the comeback shots I think he takes a UD. He’d put the fear of God into Greb who’d have nothing for him IMO, size and style really. He’d take Armstrong, Duran and SRR Toronto 5 style.

    “I came, I saw I conquered”
     
    Journeyman92, Jun 15, 2022
    Journeyman92, Jun 15, 2022
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  8. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I did not mention Leonard, but SRR had part of his peak at 160, & Greb was only 165-& 5'8", so I do not think he was too big for anybody I mentioned
    Otherwise you make a very good case!
     
    Entaowed, Jun 15, 2022
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  9. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    I think the size advantage is enough against guys that good.

    Robinson barely went north of 160, which was probably the best Greb's and certainly the best part of Langford's career.
     
    BitPlayerVesti, Jun 16, 2022
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  10. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    To be fair, Langford did have a solid stretch of 100 or so fights where he hardly lost.
     
    BitPlayerVesti, Jun 16, 2022
    BitPlayerVesti, Jun 16, 2022
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  11. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That's true, we often focus too much on past prime Langford
     
    70sFan865, Jun 16, 2022
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  12. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    But if you are defining (correctly, similar to what I specified) Greb & Robinson as almost precisely the same weight, & Greb was 3" shorter than Robinson with a longer wingspan, then Sugar was definitely larger than Greb.
    SRR went to LHW, but that was not his prime.

    Also I understand that Langford was the best-certainly in absolute terms-at 175-180.
     
    Entaowed, Jun 16, 2022
    Entaowed, Jun 16, 2022
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  13. Mike Cannon

    Mike Cannon Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Now Journeyman92, we have similar thought processes and seem, on balance, to agree and chime with quite a lot of posts, you have on many occasion's " liked " and for my part have reciprocated in earnest, so the clock is running out on your redaction of the line in your post that starts with " He'd put " and ends with " IMO " you have till midnight tonight, if above post remains in tact, consider this a slap round the face with my glove, and I would give you honour of choosing the weapons .
    Yours respectfully Mr Mike Cannon.
     
    Mike Cannon, Jun 16, 2022
    Mike Cannon, Jun 16, 2022
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  14. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    I'm not going to define them as the same weight, when they just weren't

    Greb was a big Middleweight, when he didn't have to make weight he might weigh in at 170Ibs

    Robinson was under 158Ibs when he fought Maxim.
     
    BitPlayerVesti, Jun 16, 2022
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  15. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I did not say they were the same weight, but by your very words, the weight Robinson was when he was still at his peak at MW was about something under 5 lbs., 3 typically, from Greb.
    Also maybe Greb was big in structure for a MW for his time (before same day weigh ins), but he was shorter than average (5'8").

    That he got bigger between some fights only points to more body fat, not more muscle or his body structure.
    Just like another fighter his height,LaMotta (who admittedly got larger/fatter) was never more than a natural MW despite blowing up between fights,.
    MW SRR (he gave up WW because it was too togh to make the weight, as a natural maturation process was extremely close to what you say Greb fought at.

    And given his larger percentage difference in height & arm length, overall the bigger man.
    As him briefly fighting at LHW shows, he had a structure where he could do so.

    EDIT: I did not know that SRR was that light fighting Maxim.
    Link? Still, he could have carried more weight & muscle-although whether it would benefit him is in question.
    Just as Greb would likely be no better heavier.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2022
    Entaowed, Jun 16, 2022
    Entaowed, Jun 16, 2022
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