Which fighters post Robinson have had the opportunity to surpass him?

Well if a guy likes Jones retires after Ruiz he doesn't have to balance the ledger of the losses i.e. he doesn't need as many victories as others with more losses had particularly if the losses came at a time when they were still relevant.

 

Going unbeaten against world class opposition into your late 40s would obviously be an incredible accomplishment that'd put someone up there. But I'm pretty sure no one is ever doing it, and no one has ever been capable of it. You might as well add that they won every fight by a first round KO without breaking sweat, or taking a punch.

So to say if they had done that they'd be in the GOAT conversation, therefore they had the opportunity to do it, is silly to me.

 

I think you have to ask that if someone was as good or slightly better than Sugar Ray Robinson etc., was fighting now, could they realisticly match or surpass what they really did, and I thinkt the answer is no, and by a good margin.

 

He didn't lose 25 pounds of muscle. That's horse****.

 

That is too black and white.


My point is; if for example you watch a movie about a superhero, and the most black and white one I can think of is Superman; as unless you are under ten, you know in the end Superman will win.


Generally he is unbeatable, what with his strength, ability to fly etc, but in the movie, he will have a flaw that will leave him in peril during the film. Without this peril a Superman movie is not going to have the appeal that they do. Watching Superman always win, does not make for the best movie, it needs a narrative with Superman not having things all go his way, that hopefully makes the inevitable victory at the end even more satisfying.


So using that for boxing; Duran coming back from big set backs, added to his amazing skills in his pomp, makes for a more compelling fighter than say a Duran who retires after the Brawl in Montreal.

 

Do you think they would still get those same fights if they never lost?

 

Even if Jones didn't get DQd against Griffin and retired after beating Ruiz, I don't think that would have been enough to make him better than Robinson. He doesn't have many elite signature wins outside of Toney, Hopkins, and Tarver.

 

Good point, some fights that help make a fighter special are rematch/series wins. If for example Holyfield beat Bowe in 92, does he really go one year only now defending the titles against Stewart before beating Bowe again?!


I would suggest a Holyfield coming off a 92 win over Bowe, takes up the offer of a 93 Lewis fight..

 

Wrong. He weighed in at 193 and, 12 hours later, was apparently high 190s with clothes and I think shoes on. For 175 fights, he was rehydrating to mid to high 180s.

In other words, his weight for Ruiz was not outside the parameters of what 175 fighters weigh in ring. Nor was the weight loss entirely or even majority muscle.

The weight cut likely affected his stamina in the first Tarver fight, but that's it.

 

Disagree. Anything after Tarver knocking him out in the rematch was past his best. I thought he looked good in the rematch until he got caught. He was arguably the best guy in boxing until that point, sort of like Floyd past age 35.

Support for this view? Del Valle put Jones on his ass with the same shot years earlier and was inferior to Tarver.