Larry Holmes vs Evander Holyfield ATG Who ranks higher

I highly doubt Larry was on the juice.

 

I think you're being pretty harsh here Suze.

In 11 years and 21 fights Holyfield lost 3. No shame in losing two to Bowe who was of a calibre quite a few ATG's never prevailed over.

He beat a guy who had just whooped the mighty Mike Tyson in solid fashion. It wasn't up to Holyfield to yell at him during training hours and guard his refrigerator outside of them.

The fights just weren't that close and he was never in any real danger of losing. More is made of the fights than they merit due to both being aged and massive names. Foreman later regaiend the crown and Larry had beat Mercer in a solid win. Both were top 10 heavies at the time i reckon.

Holmes was "nearly" knocked out by Snipes who was such an underdog there were no lines of betting. Louis was in trouble plenty of times etc. It happens.

No shame in that. Bowe was a stylistic/size nightmare for him and would have beaten quite a few big names on all there of those nights.

Something was going on with him that night but he did right that ship in a rematch.

Holyfield had heaps of wear and tear by then and was considered shot by some. He was considered easy pickings for a Tyson who everyone had already built back up into almost invincible status.

Holyfield was fading by then. Lewis is an ATG H2H heavyweight who a great many of us rate top 5 minimum. Spinks beat Holmes too - when he was well faded as well.

The guy was ancient. He was 17 years into his pro career. This trilogy is virtually irrelevant.

He had plenty of consistency for over a decade of his heavyweight foray. The only poor loss in all that time was Moorer.

 

Holmes is in the middle of my all time top ten, Holyfield at nine or ten.

 

Who did holmes beat ?

 

Holmes is greater as a HW.
Most has been said already, consistency & in all likelihood never took PEDs.
The idea that everyone must be using, or we know what percentage does, is as irrational & unfair as to assume nobody who never gets caught ever did.

But transforming your body & capacities with drugs means you cheated to have a degree of success you would not otherwise have.

 

Bert Sugar said there was no truth to rumours Holyfield was going to fight Jack Sharkey.

R.I.P. Bert Sugar, a poor historian, but a brilliant comedian.

 

Ken Norton, Tim Witherspoon, Ernie Shavers, Leon Spinks, etc.

 

Holmes but hell, Evander might be closer to him than I thought in ratings.

 

...Holmes lost to Spinks....twice

 

Holmes for me. I rate long stretches of consistent dominance quite highly.

 

He was clearly past it and common consensus is that he won the second.

 

My quote was in comparison to someone saying Larry never lost to anyone like Moorer. Regardless of the circumstances, he did. I'm a huge Holmes fan, and a bigger fan of Evander but I rate Holmes higher, consistently in my top 3.

 

I did post on this topic at the time but i'll add a few more arguments.

World title wins

Holmes 20
Holyfield 10

Wins over top 10 ranked opposition

Holmes 17
Holyfield 12

Overall Heavyweight record

Holmes 69-6
Holyfield 26-10

As i said at the time yes Holyfield fought better opposition than Holmes overall but he wasn't always winning and he wasn't the best of his era as he was clearly below Bowe, Lewis.

I prefer Holmes better consistency and more superior stats in regards to world title wins and wins vs ranked oppposition.

 

Really tough question to answer. To me, Holmes had the greater volume of heavyweight wins and title defenses, greater longevity, tremendous win streak. Head to head, even super old and past-it, Holmes held his own with Evander. Prime for prime, I could see Holmes winning a decision over Holyfield, but it would be a very tough and competitive contest because Holyfield always fought hard and fought to win, had a crisp enough punch and good enough speed to get respect, kept a pretty solid pace, and had an iron jaw. But Holmes was so tall, long, fast, quick snap, great pace, great footwork, great timing and cleverness, also great chin and had that winner's mentality and toughness. Close split decision type fight.

All that said, I think Holyfield's best wins, though fewer, were superior to Holmes' best wins. I think Evander had stiffer competition. Even one win over Bowe is probably better than any win Holmes had. The win over Tyson, even a post-prison Tyson, probably is as good as or better than any Holmes title defense. Even the Foreman victory is significant. The Cooper struggle, well, on an "on" night, Cooper could be hell on earth for anyone, including Mercer and Moorer - if you saw those fights you know Cooper can really fight. Bert caught Evander with the perfect punch and Evander came back to stop him. Somewhat on the level of Holmes having to come back against Snipes or Shavers. Beating guys like Douglas, who was champion at the time and coming off a big win over Tyson, or stopping Michael Moorer, who was not easy to beat and had plenty of quality wins, in the rematch, or even Dokes, who yes was past his best years but was highly motivated and got into great shape for that fight and gave it his all, were as good as many of Holmes' title defenses.

 

Holmes, and in my opinion it's not really close