the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

@scartissue

It's interesting that it would be that wide officially being in Tate's hometown.

If I recall Weaver would occasionally in his career go from sleepwalking in a bout to having this incredible burst of energy, like it was his plan all along.

Tate's performance almost has me wanting to start a thread about how he would have done against the contenders of the generation following his. But it would probably hard to get the image of him getting knocked out when putting him head to head against anyone more current.

How was Tate doing before Berbick stopped him? Fight worth a watch?

Also, knowing how close the Holmes fights with Witherspoon and Williams were so close. Tate certainly fits somewhere in there at his absolute best.

 

Maybe not winning rounds but you can see Weaver digging some meaningful body shots along the way, especially later in the fight.

I have always been of the opinion that the right to the body that set up the left hook KO was equally important. Tate kind of bounces/ricochets off the ropes right into the punch and I think it sunk about half a foot into him.

Small overlooked detail.

 

Mike, in regards to your question about Tate v Berbick. Of course, this is a 40 plus year old memory. I remember seeing this on the undercard of Duran-Leonard I. It was a telecast in an arena and whatever the hell they did, every fighter had a green pigmentation. Tate, Berbick, Leonard and Duran were all green. That being said, what I recall was that Tate really looked like he was missing a step. Something wasn't right and he just looked fragile. But I just checked and the fight is out there on youtube and I am penciling it in to give it a rewatch. So I'll get back to you in a day or so.

 

Tate-Berbick has an interesting backstory.

In making the first Leonard-Duran fight, Don King was involved as Duran’s promoter and Leonard’s side also brought in Bob Arum because of his expertise in the closed circuit market worldwide. So King and Arum ended up co-promoting. Soon after that deal was struck, King ran into one of Arum’s lieutenants at an airport and said ‘when do we want to sit down and start working out the undercard’ and was informed that Arum had already made it, complete with signed contracts so it couldn’t be undone.

The chief support was comebacking John Tate, one of the biggest names in Arum’s promotional stable at the time due to being a recent former heavyweight champion, against an obscure Canadian, Berbick (they used some Canadians on the undercard to help move tickets and increase publicity in the Montreal market).

Not pleased at being shut out on the undercard, King contacted Berbick’s people and set up a world-class training camp for him for free, providing top-level sparring and bringing in some training help. So King helped stack the deck a bit in Berbick’s favor to knock off Arum’s guy, and then signed Berbick immediately.

I’ve seen some people claim that Berbick was too tough of an opponent for Tate coming off his upset loss, but it just ain’t so. Berbick’s only fight against an opponent of note on his record at the time was getting KO’d by Bernardo Mercado in one round about 14 months prior. Since that loss, he had fought to a draw with trial horse Leroy Caldwell (who had about a .500 record) and eeked out a split decision over a guy who was like 5-13 (both this and the Caldwell fight, btw, were in Canada, where you’d figure Trevor might get the better of the judging, so make of those results what you will), sandwiched around a couple of wins over nobodies.

In short, there was nothing in Berbick’s record to this point that would make anyone think he was anything but a soft touch who would never make a dent on the world level. If Tate had beaten him, we likely never would have heard of him again.

 

D, I checked this fight out today and then hit history on Pyatt and saw you did this a few months back. Actually, I wanted to see Pyatt against John David Jackson and enjoyed the first 2 rounds of their fight, but then when I was geared up for the 3rd round they announced 'Round 5', and that's when I aborted the endeavor. Can't stand these truncated fights. Anyways, I alighted upon this. And although your card and mine were miles apart, I totally agree with what you said about quite a few rounds that were just tough to score. Here we go......

Chris Pyatt v Sumbu Kalambay (vacant WBO middleweight title)

Round 1: 10-9 Pyatt
Round 2: 10-9 Pyatt
Round 3: 10-10 Even
Round 4: 10-9 Kalambay
Round 5: 10-9 Kalambay
Round 6: 10-9 Pyatt
Round 7: 10-9 Kalambay
Round 8: 10-9 Kalambay
Round 9: 10-10 Even
Round 10: 10-9 Pyatt
Round 11: 10-9 Kalambay
Round 12: 10-10 Even

Total: 116-115 Kalambay (actual scores: 115-113, 116-114 and 116-113 all for Pyatt)

Oh, man, what a toughie on the scorer. Pyatt was the perpetual aggressor and was still trying to fire despite nothing in the tank but pure heart. Kalambay, although I felt he did barely enough, was just not the Kalambay of old. There were openings begging for a counter which he could no longer pull the trigger on. I also felt he could have worked the body more on the gassing Pyatt and his jab - which he had moments of success with - was simply underused. The closeness of this bout and my score states I have no problem with this decision and Pyatt should be applauded for digging in to the last despite fighting on fumes those last two rounds.

 

It was a very close fight with alot of tough rounds to score, but for me at that stage in both men's careers. The less talented but more hungry younger fighter, deserved the nod based on his willingness and desire to win especially in last 2 rounds.

 

Scar, I watched Palma-Cardona 2 today and was struck by how far gone Cardona looked. He just didn't have the legs to get off the ropes. He tried, bless him; every round he'd soldier on trying to come out behind the jab and attempt to keep the fight in center-ring. As soon as Palma landed a jab or two though, he'd retreat to the ropes and have to try to punch from that compromised position. For the first few rounds he gave almost as good as he got in terms of sheer output but he wasn't winning the rounds because of his defensive posture.

Each successive round got a little wider for Palma until finally he caved. Brave as he was, he was floored by Palma early in the 12th, and couldn't defend himself properly after absorbing more from the Argentine. The ref wisely stepped in. I'd have thrown the towel before then, had I been in the poor guy's corner.

I gave Cardona only the first, and each subsequent round for Palma until it ended.

 

Mike, I checked out Tate-Berbick today after a 42 year hiatus from seeing the bout, and to answer your question, is it worth a watch? I would say, yeah. It was back and forth and close with some sharp punches landing. But it's not the kind of fight to marvel at John Tate. Man, he was SHOT! Gone was the water-tight defense he displayed against Coetzee and Knoetze and he just allowed a clubbing puncher like Berbick all over him. So from a competitive angle, it wasn't bad.

John Tate v Trevor Berbick

Round 1: 10-9 Berbick
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 Tate
Round 4: 10-9 Tate
Round 5: 10-9 Tate
Round 6: 10-9 Berbick
Round 7: 10-9 Tate
Round 8: 10-9 Berbick
Round 9: Berbick drops and stops Tate

Total through 8 completed rounds: 77-76 Tate (actual cards not known)

Ferdie Pacheco was one of the commentators and I usually roll my eyes with some of his statements (like referring to Trevor Berbick as Trevor Howard and Trevor Bobick). And this bout was no different. He was in denial at first but then came along to my way of thinking when he just saw Tate getting tagged. As I watch this fight again I see how it all came apart for Tate. And that was in the 8th round. He was buzzed during the round and then right at the end, watch the last punch landed by Berbick. Tate did a drunk walk back to his corner. And that was the beginning of the end as Berbick immediately pounced on him at the beginning of the 9th. This fight should never have been a big deal to Tate. He was damaged goods after the Weaver fight and should have packed it in after this bout.

 

Thanks for letting me know. I actually watched Lewis vs. Weaver last night. I have this fascination of watching fighters best performances than evening it out with some of their worst. I guess to see both sides of the cover.

 

You should definitely check out some Roberto Duran.

I’m not sure any fighter had higher highs or lower lows. Even some of his wins in his ‘lost years’ between Leonard II and, say, Leonard III are just eyesores.

 

Checked out a fight I watched live in '82 and on a lark, checked it out again. There are a few versions out there, but there is one version which has some eastern european commentator doing an overlay over the American announcing team. That is actually the best version because it is almost hi-def where the others are grainy.

Pinklon Thomas v James 'Quick' Tillis

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Tillis
Round 3: 10-10 Even
Round 4: 10-9 Thomas
Round 5: 10-9 Thomas
Round 6: 10-9 Thomas
Round 7: 10-9 Thomas
Round 8: Thomas stops Tillis

Total through 7 completed rounds: 69-66 Thomas (actual scores unknown)

To begin, this wasn't a bad fight at all. A bit of a fun heavyweight bout. This was Thomas' coming-out party as he came in at 2 days notice (although he was scheduled to fight Jeff Shelburg, so he was in shape) for the ailing Tim Witherspoon. I heard Tillis thought the card was scrubbed and decided to party in Cleveland until told they had a sub. But regardless, both fighters got their licks in in this bout and one could see Tillis slowly gassing out, as he always managed to do. The 7th round could be a judgement call if someone was going to call that one a 10-8 for Thomas. I did not because Pink started to gas out as well, so I wouldn't call it a battering or a sustained battering anyway. Dundee had his work cut out for him when he managed Tillis. Screaming, begging, imploring always seemed to be the name of the game in a corner with Tillis. Funny how shortly after this Dundee took the reins of Thomas from the Duvas. Anyways, I would actually suggest this fight to you guys as a fun fight.

 

Ken Norton W15 Jimmy Young

Given my general lack of appreciation for heavyweights I've managed to come this far without watching this, but figured finally that it was historically significant enough to have to invest the time. Here goes........

Norton looks old and slow and kind of unmotivated in this fight. In general terms, he allows the non-combative Young to dictate the pace, which is a head scratcher. I thought he looked quite bad, and while Young does his damndest to avoid actual fighting, he got the better of it I thought, trying to shed the specter of his farce with Ali. He managed to fight more against Foreman, and did enough here as well, I thought.

1. Young
2. Young
3. Young
4. Norton
5. Norton
6. Norton
7. Norton
8. Norton
9. Even
10. Young
11. Young
12. Young
13. Young
14. Young
15. Norton

144-142 Young. The harder blows (nearly all of them to the body) were landed by Norton but after taking the first three rounds to warm to the occasion and dominate pace and tempo of the next five rounds, simply stopped. Young didn't have to hit the accelerator that hard, Norton just stopped attacking, looking lethargic and tired. Tired would be an odd excuse since he hadn't extended himself much and it was still relatively early but there we are. Young's own negative style hurt him here I think.

 

Greg Page v David Bey (USBA heavyweight title)

Round 1: 10-9 Page
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-9 Bey
Round 4: 10-9 Bey
Round 5: 10-10 Even
Round 6: 10-9 Page
Round 7: 10-9 Page
Round 8: 10-9 Page
Round 9: 10-9 Bey
Round 10: 10-10 Even
Round 11: 10-9 Bey
Round 12: 10-9 Bey

Total: 116-115 Bey (actual scores: 115-114, 116-112 and 115-113 all for Bey)

This was an incredibly tight fight where one could make a case for both fighters. Bey won it on my card in the last round where he dug deep and despite being cut to pieces (over both eyes and bleeding from the nose) he made the effort and finished working to the end. Although close, I really wouldn't recommend it as a must-see.

 

Larry Holmes v David Bey (heavyweight title)

Round 1: 10-10 Even
Round 2: 10-9 Bey
Round 3: 10-9 Holmes
Round 4: 10-9 Bey
Round 5: 10-9 Holmes
Round 6: 10-9 Holmes
Round 7: 10-9 Holmes
Round 8: 10-7 Holmes (scores 2 knockdowns)
Round 9: 10-9 Holmes
Round 10: Holmes stops Bey

Total through 9 completed rounds: 88-82 Holmes (actual scores: 88-81, 87-82 and another 87-82 all for Holmes)

Bey gave it a go early and rattled Holmes a couple of times with his unorthodox haymakers. But once Holmes settled down to the job at hand, it was a matter of time because once Bey showed everything in his arsenal Holmes just put him in the crosshairs and began setting him up with the jab and sharp-shooting with the right. In the end, Bey had nothing but courage against a very talented champ.

 

Salvador Sanchez vs Danny Lopez 1

1 Sanchez
2 Sanchez
3 Lopez
4 Sanchez
5 Sanchez
6 Sanchez
7 Sanchez
8 Sanchez
9 Sanchez
10 Sanchez
11 Sanchez
12 Sanchez
13 Sanchez wins by TKO

119-109 Sanchez

So i've been discussing Sanchez quite a bit lately, so i'm going to be revisiting alot of his fights this week. This was fight was as good as i remember, probably one of my favourite boxing masterclasses ever. Sanchez boxed beautifully in this fight against the very game Lopez, who did amazingly well to last 13 rounds with the amount of flush right hands he was taking, Lopez just couldn't sustain any attack in this fight. As he was constantly countered punched by Sanchez's right hand, aswell as Sanchez being too fast on his feet. And the few times Lopez did managed to land flush it had no effect on Sanchez who had a granite chin.

For me this is one of the best performances ever from a young fighter over a respected champion, i can't wait to revisit more of Sanchez's classic fights this week.