He was powerful enough to splatter a 6ft5 something guy known for his durability. He hit plenty hard. We don't see HWs his size today anymore because guys his size would be fat at the minimum entry of 201lbs and give up there particular advantages.
He is 6'1 while Bivol is 6', but Dempsey was 175 pounds and Bivol is 183 pounds. Bivol weighs more. Dempsey cannot punch as hard as very skilled very large heavyweights. It's a matter of the laws of physics, not an unmeasurable foreign element. Punching "power" is simply the force of a punch. Force is mass times velocity (F=MV, Newton's Second Law of Physics). Punching speed in boxers varies by up to 60%, and has very little to do with weight class. If Jack Dempsey had a 32 mph punch thrown with proper form, he could hypothetically throw as hard as a fighter who weighed 60% more than him (280 pounds) assuming the puncher had the slowest punch in professional boxing. The big thing is that it's highly unlikely he threw at 32 mph given he wasn't regularly KOing people with one punch, he doesn't look exceptionally fast on camera punchwise, and of course it's just unlikely. It's also highly unlikely any of the top HW punchers are throwing at the absolute slowest professional boxers throw. More likely, they punch at much closer to the same speed, let's arbitrarily say with an edge of 10% to Dempsey, and therefore a 280 pound boxer punches with approximately 45% more force than Dempsey.
Dempsey weighed 187-190 when he beat Willard, Bivol does not weigh more. Thomas Hearns, Julian Jackson, Bob Fitzsimmons also hit much harder than what they weigh. Ive sparred guys over 200 that couldnt crack an egg, some guys 150 lbs hit harder. Joe Louis could drive his opponents mouthpiece through their teeth, Marciano sheared peoples teeth off a the gums. Dempsey was in the same league todays heavies arent.
Okay, yeah, he did sometimes weigh in the upper 180s, fairly regularly. Still, a little bigger, a little smaller, whatever, he was about the same size as Bivol. Not a modern heavyweight, not even close to a modern cruiserweight. Modern boxers could knock eachother's teeth out if they didn't wear mouthguards, which weren't in common use until years and years after Dempsey lost his title. The first time they were used in boxing was 1921, but they weren't commonly used until the late 1920s. Joe Louis had 35 pounds on Dempsey and is the size of a small modern HW or a large CW, he's in a different weight class than Dempsey. But still, given what we understand about punching power on a physics level, it's highly unlikely he punches as hard as 280 pound 6'7 Zhilei Zhang or somebody else so large. Harder gloves likely caused a more devastating effect on his opponent's mouths, or perhaps tabloids exaggerated damage slightly, like in the case of Willard vs Dempsey. The reason 200 pound boxers at your gym can't punch is because they are unskilled at punching. They don't know the proper form for delivering their mass.
My example in regards to the mouthpiece was Louis and Marciano not Dempsey. Tony Galento said Dempsey hit him harder in sparring than did Louis. Many boxers today regardless of weight dont know how to punch the old timers did, their meals depended on it.
For sub 190 Heavyweights he quite likely might be top 5 or even sit at the very top. It's very hard to say. In the open field i don't think he overly rates at this point......as in not in the top 50 for starters.
Much of what you say is true. But it is not correct that the actual force & effect of punches is merely mass X acceleration. Everyone who speaks about different types of power, clubbing vs. sharp, short circuiting the braiaian, the size of the hands & quality (like knuckles) making a difference is not wrong. One example is George Foreman. Even if his form was more efficient than many believe, a separate question, he tended to weigh around 220 lbs. in his first career (somewhat lighter than ideal due to Saddler's misguided dehydration. Clearly he did not swing very fast. Oh & the lighter guys do tend even to move their arms faster, also basic physics... Just like you saying that really big guys with great technique hit harder than Dempsey. But IF the reality of punching force was merely only the equivalent of a formula used in physics, then logically Foreman would have to not have been a top puncher, not nearly so. You also need to be more precise in your numbers. Check them before you post. Unless it was literally hungry Dempsey fighting very early as a hobo, I have never heard him listed as anything like 175. You corrected that, only to say Joe Louis weighed 35 lbs. more! Huh? Even at his heaviest at the end of his career he did not weigh that much more. But taking an exceptionally light or heavy one off weight would not be accurate. He weighed 198 3/4 vs. Schmelling 2, what many consider his peak. if you use his heaviest weight when at his peak before WW2, you still get a weight at most a bit under 20 lbs. more than Dempsey vs. Willard. If you use heavier Dempsey weights, they are almost the same.
This is a two part answer. On film Dempsey takes some like 99 shots to floor multiple and finish an old 37 year old Jess Willlard lands a good amount of clean shots to floor multiple times and finish Firpo too. He was down two times to Fripo though I'd don't know if you can see it because the film is highly edited, which makes me suspicious. These two were heavyweights, though not good ones, at least in movement and defense. A true puncher finishes his man with far less shots and sooner I say. Guys are hurt and to ref saves them form punishment because they can't dedend themeleves even in his day or are flat out, unable to beat the count. For a 185- 190 pounder Dempsey clearly had power finish fighter his size of smaller quickly, but for the heavyweights above 200 lbs its mostly a different story. He took a while ( 12 rounds in a which Dempsey was in trouble ) to finish near 200 pound Bill Brennan who would likely not be ranked today. And his opponents were often what light heavies weights on fight night or lower. For his size I'd give him a 9 or 10 out of ten, using a pound per pound sense of 185-190 pound men ( light heavyweights today or small cruisers ) but vs natural 210+ plus heavyweights I'd say its an 8. Still good today, but not great. Sorry fans that's only the way I see it.
Firstly physics, now maths... Dempsey weighed 187 lbs when he was at his peak, Louis never weighed above 220 lbs in his career.
You could be right, I don’t agree with you much at all here, but that doesn’t mean you are wrong. Just for some extra thought, how do you personally think JDs gloves play into this? Modern gloves will let you hit a guy harder with no fear of a break, Dempsey was from the garden gloves era.
His small size might lead you to think, that delivery was his secret weapon, as opposed to raw power. On that basis alone, you might put him quite far from the top of the list. Having said that, he undoubtedly punched well above his weight, because of his punching technique. He used a technique called the drop step, where he literally fell into a punch, then recovered his footing. This was a difficult technique to master, let alone be good at, but it resulted in sickening power.
Yeah, I do apologize for not checking the weights, I haven't been into classic boxing for sometime. For some reason I remembered Joe Louis at 220 pounds. On the other hand, power really is just force. It's mass x velocity. There's no secret unexplainable secret driving punching power. It's explainable through science. We know exactly what force is, and we have for 350 years. It's not really a debate, people might do this and this to increase their punching power, but punching power is just force. There's nothing else it could be. That's what it is. Mass x velocity.
