Ken Norton vs Larry Holmes Who won?scorecards!

I had Holmes up by a point. A draw or close Norton win would not have been injustice. Great fight between two great champions.

 

5 points seems an awful lot to me. I had Holmes winning by the closest of margins.

 

Well it was 4 points on my card, and on my notes for it there were 3/4 swing rounds, also an even. Either way, I think Norton's success in that fight is overblown, and I definitely don't think he has a case for winning.

 

Holmes-Norton
1 10-9
1 10-9
3 10-9
4 10-9
5 10-9
6 10-9
7 9-10
8 9-10
9 9-10
10 10-9
11 9-10
12 9-10
13 10-9
14 9-10
15 10-9

144-141 Holmes But I can't blame anyone for making it a lot closer, even having Kenny ahead. It wasn't the easiest fight to score.

For me, Holmes pretty much swept the first six rounds...Ken just didn't seem warmed up enough and Larry was beating him to the punch and initiating things far more often (despite Ken's constant forward movement).

 

Norton stated his gameplan was to take it easy early and conserve energy for later as he thought Holmes would struggle with the distance in a 15 round fight. He ended up wrong and said as much after the fight. He said he should have went at it right from the start.

 

Though I might be the biggest Larry fan here, I wouldn't have blamed the judges for giving Ken the decision via championship Benefit of a Doubt. But Ken had real bad luck with judges (except for the Jimmy Young fight, perhaps).

 

Great posts from everyone, this fight really inspires our best thinking about boxing. Interesting that many of us had one even round but they were all different; mine was Round 3. I had Holmes up by a point going into the 15th but gave the15th to Norton, I felt he won the first two minutes; we know now 2 of the 3 judges gave it to Holmes for the victory. After the 13th I thought Holmes had it in the bag and give Norton credit for big heart in the 14th and a valiant 15th, bringing my card to a draw, 143-143. Has anyone actually seen the judge's scorecards round-by-round? I'd be curious. This tiny sliver of a win for Holmes propelled him into heavyweight greatness, 19 defenses over 8 years, while Norton faded from the top echelon, a man who was so close and always fell a bit short, a gentleman but with something almost tragic about him, melancholy and private, like he expected to be left out of the party. His only reign as champion was just the time leading up to this fight, March-June 1978, and was awarded to him on a sanctioning body decision when Leon Spinks gave Ali a rematch instead of fighting Norton, and the WBC named Norton the champ after pulling the belt from Spinks. This means that Ken Norton never had that moment in the ring where his name was called as "The New" heavyweight champion of the world; falling one point short against bitter rival Holmes, he still had the "Semper Fi" Marines code of honor in defeat, and crossed the ring to congratulate the winner. Two L.A. publications had named him "Father of the Year" in 1977, a year before this fight. Larry Holmes as a personality ran hot and cold. It was understandable that he was somewhat feisty about not getting his due, as he had the misfortune of being the champ shortly after the reign of Muhammad Ali. He could be gracious and intelligent in some interviews, profane and enraged in others. His "Rocky Marciano couldn't carry my jockstrap" tirade, with Rocky's family in the same room, was his lowest point, but he had just had one of his lowest points in the fight game, losing to a man who seemed to be half his size, light-heavyweight champ Michael Spinks - both the fight and the classless comments hurt Larry's legacy. But he fought well through his 40s, invested wisely, took care of his family and his hometown, and is respected as an elder statesman now. As a champ he is finally appreciated for his whip of a left jab and ring generalship, as well as his long reign. The Holmes/Norton fight to me is one of those crossroads fights in a crossroads year, 1978. Holmes soared and Norton began a slow decline; we were a few years away from the Reagan presidency and the 80's era, Rambo and Rocky and Born in the USA, and Larry Holmes was our champ, following Ali and to be followed by Tyson. Larry had his time and I think we can say now that, except for a few lapses, he reigned with dignity and did himself proud. It all began on June 9, 1978, when I was a young Air Force buck, driving from Luke AFB in Phoenix to L.A. for a little weekend madness, and stopped to watch the Norton/Holmes fight in a Blythe, California bar with some friends and a bunch of locals, hot as hell in the Sonora desert, buying each other pitchers of PBR, whooping it up and enjoying what I still think is the closest boxing match I have ever witnessed.

 

Don't remember my exact score, but I do remember having Holmes winning by one point, but with Norton winning the 15th.

 

Happened to just score this:

Round 1: 10-9 Holmes. close.
Round 2: 10-9 Holmes
Round 3: 10-9 Holmes. Close Kenny came on in the last minute but the Holmes jab doing it's thing.
Round 4: 10-9 Holmes
Round 5: 10-9 Holmes. Close.
Round 6: 10-9 Holmes
Round 7: 10-9 Holmes. Close Kenny again landed a few big shots but Holmes in control most of round.
Round 8: 10-9 Norton. Close.
Round 9: 10-9 Norton
Round 10: 10-10 Even
Round 11: 10-9 Norton
Round 12: 10-9 Holmes
Round 13: 10-9 Holmes
Round 14: 10-9 Norton. Close
Round 15: 10-10. ATG Round

My Card: 146-141 Holmes

 

Absolutely loved this last part where you really painted the picture. I even looked up PBR and a pic or two of bars in Blythe.

 

I have Holmes winning the fight but don’t forget Larry was also injured going into this fight. It would not have been as close if not for the injury!

 

This is a possibility.

 

I didn’t remember it all that close. In the way guys I’ve seen score it did. I thought an INJURED Holmes won convincingly.

 

Wow, a mere 7 years after this was posted I’m liking it very much.

Excellent analysis allowing a reasonable bandwidth for alternate interpretation.

Larry looked more aesthetic plying his trade for sure but of course we shouldn’t score fights based on prettier executions (see Hagler vs Leonard).

When the smoke cleared on this one and you stood back - a draw seemed the most fair result. But that’s not how it’s done, you score in real time and that can often lead to a slender 1 point margin either way - and it literally seemed that (imo) that was all there was in it.

I’m surprised McDraw, is this back in the days when you actually nominated a winner? - or are all draws otherwise reserved for fantasy forecasts only.

Please see Smiley Face - intended to avert any thoughts of potential banning. I’ve done my time, paid my dues. I’m a much harder man for it. That calls for another smiley

 

Larry Holmes vs Ken Norton

1 Holmes
2 Holmes
3 Holmes
4 Holmes
5 Holmes
6 Holmes
7 Norton
8 Norton
9 Holmes
10 Norton
11 Norton
12 Norton
13 Holmes
14 Norton
15 Norton

143-142 Holmes

I always thought this fight was kind of overrated as a close fight, but watching it again years later i'm surprised how close it was.

I don't think you can really argue with the first 6 rounds, Holmes boxed beautifully circling and pot shotting Norton. With that famous piston like left jab and occasional right crosses. Although i think the 5th round was somewhat debatable, but one big right hand from Norton wasn't enough to sway it in Norton's favour.

After 6 rounds i had Holmes pitching a shut out, but after that Norton started to get warmed up. And started getting closer to Holmes really piling on the pressure asHolmes was less effective with the jab, allowing Norton to land more with his own jab and occasional big right hand.

The 9th round is a very debatable round, and i can see how it could be scored for Norton. But for me Holmes had the better portion of the round out jabbing Norton, and even though Norton landed two big right hands in the round. Holmes responded immediately with his own right hands and a nice body shot to boot. So i don't think them two right hands from Norton were enough.

From then on i thought Holmes was looking tired, and i liked the effective aggression from Norton. The 13th round was huge round for Holmes and i think there is an argument, that possibly it could of been scored 10-8 ? maybe that's reaching though. But after the torrid 13th round for Norton, i thought he responded well and easily won the 14th round.

Then we have the famous 15th round which is considered one of the rounds in Heavyweight history. To me i've never understood people scoring the last round for Holmes. I think it's a clear round for Norton, who out landed Holmes 2 to 1 for 2:30 of the round. Yes Holmes did have a great moment where he staggered Norton in the last 10 seconds, but i never thought that little moment in the round. Was anywhere near enough to steal the round with all the good work Norton done for majority of the round.

Overall the fight is as good as i remember, although some rounds were alot closer than i remember them being.