Would Ron Lyle, Be Capable Of Beating Most Of The 1950 s Heavyweight s?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Jul 30, 2022.



  1. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I can agree to some extent but to be fair, some fighters have their best performances in losing fights.

    For example, Holyfield-Bowe, Ali-Frazier I, Old Foreman-Holyfield, Foster-Quarry,
     
  2. Holmes77

    Holmes77 Member Full Member

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    Don’t think he was scared. He lost the title and had not fought in almost 2 years plus a new trainer. Yes losing the fight to Ali messed him up. And Ali wasn’t about to give him a rematch he knew that.
     
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  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    yes he could. Moore beat Baker during the reign of Rocky Marciano.

    Baker was rated by the NBA quarterly rankings every year during the Marciano reign. He featured in each year. He ranked #9 and #6 in 1952. Made “honourable mention” in 1953 during the quarter where they listed just a logical contender and two outstanding boxers rather than an actual top ten. The end of 1954 (the year Archie beat him) Bob ranked highest among honourable mentions after “logical” Nino Valdes and “outstanding” Charles and Cockell. Then when they went back to a top ten in 1955 Bob ranked #1, #2 and #3.

    During this time Bob was beating contenders like Rex Layne, Coley Wallace, Jimmy Slade and Nino Valdes.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2022
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  4. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Moore beat big punchers in Hatchetman Satterfield and Valdez. I don’t think Lyle would give him much trouble. And I like Lyle to beat a lot of guys just not Moore
     
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  5. Pugguy

    Pugguy Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think Lyle could certainly hit but it seemed he didn’t always punch with sufficiently bad intentions. Perhaps a hint of a lacking in confidence also?

    If an opponent brought it to him (as Foreman and Shavers did) Lyle certainly brought it back. No time to equivocate or second guess.

    Is there any scope to suggest Lyle was erratic or simply fell short against a certain quality threshold of competition?

    We can only judge him on his manifest career and achievements, all else is speculation, but it’s easy to forget just how old Ronnie already was for his higher profile fights - older than even Ali.

    I do like Lyle but judge him objectively at the same time.
     
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  6. SolomonDeedes

    SolomonDeedes Active Member Full Member

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    Well, firstly you have your facts wrong. Baker was ranked 9th by the NBA in the first quarter of 1952, dropping to 11th in the second quarter.

    Not that it matters because Baker fought Archie Moore in March 1954 and by that time he wasn't ranked anywhere by anyone. In his last bout he had been easily beaten by a man who was on the comeback trail from an eye injury, who lost both the remaining bouts of his career before his injury forced his final retirement.

    Again, this isn't about Marciano, so the fact that Baker was ranked at some point during Marciano's reign is meaningless.
     
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  7. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    The end of 1954 (the year Archie beat him) Bob ranked highest among honourable mentions after “logical” Nino Valdes and “outstanding” Charles and Cockell.
     
  8. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 Officer Full Member

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    first of all Moore beat Valdes TWICE

    second, if you’re going to claim one of the victory’s over Valdes was “controversial” please provide a source? I have never seen any ringside scorecards who didn’t have Moore as the Victor.

    Valdes beat Ezzard Charles before charles put up that heroic title fight vs Marciano. He had several other solid wins throughout the entire decade of the 50s, exceeding Lyles resume


    Valdes on film fought like a brawler on the inside, far from tentative. He was big and punched very hard and used his size and strength to maul smaller opponents.
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  9. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 Officer Full Member

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    Baker was rated # 4 in the world by NBA when Satterfield knocked him out in 1953. This dropped baker down in the rankings.

    The clarence henry loss did little to hurt Baker's ranking. NBA had Henry rated # 4 and in their "Most outstanding contender" status.

    Baker never lost his ranking completely, and regained it as fast as he lost it. This was a tremendous victory for Archie Moore.

    The NBA ranked Baker "7th in the world" in November of 1954.

    In December of 1928, Baker had moved up to # 4 in the NBA rankings, listed as Honorable Mention for outstanding contender.

    By January of 1956, The NBA rated him as the # 1 contender "Most outstanding contender"
     
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  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 Officer Full Member

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    Yeah you are talking BS

    Clarence Henry was rated as "Outstanding Boxer" by NBA and Ranked by both NBA (4th) and Ring Magazine ( Either 5th or 7th) when he fought Baker in 53.

    I don't understand what are you goal is here. Baker was 26 years old going into the Moore fight. He had been rated # 4 in the world in 1953 and would go back up to # 3 in the world in 1955, and even # 1 in the world early in 1956. Seems he was smack in the middle of his prime in 1954. Are you arguing he not in his prime when Archie beat him? Rankings are entirely subjective. Satterfield was a ferocious puncher who caught him early, and Clarence Henry was a top rated boxer by the NBA for the past couple years who had arguably deserved a title shot vs Charles, Walcott or Marciano. Not exactly bad defeats.
     
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  11. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 Officer Full Member

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    He read about Lyle's 1,000 pushups a day in prison and his pecs and biceps look bigger than Walcott's or Moore's so that means Marciano never faced a puncher so deadly! lol
     
  12. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 Officer Full Member

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    Some point? Baker cracked the top 5 rankings THREE times during Marciano's reign. In 1953, 1955 and 1956. He climbed to as high as # 1 most outstanding contender.

    You're dismissal of Henry is laughable. Baker fought extra cautiously because Henry was a huge huge puncher with his left hook and had knocked out Baker in a huge fight at madison square garden in 1951 (both guys rated top 5 by all organizations) taking away Baker's undefeated record. Baker was very weary of Henry's power and fought a passive fight. He did not know about Henry's eye injury.

    You love to downplay this "1954" version of Baker who you believe seemed to be far less potent of a version than the 1953, 1955, and 1956 Baker whom cracked the top 5. Immediately after the moore fight, Baker record wins over Wallace and Slade and moved back into the top 5 by the end of 1954. Losses to Satterfield and Henry were minor setbacks to two highly dangerous fighters
     
  13. SolomonDeedes

    SolomonDeedes Active Member Full Member

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    You're confused. When Clarence Henry beat Bob Baker in December 1953, neither man was ranked by either the Ring or the NBA.

    https://ibb.co/CWHYRVK
    https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/23314628
     
  14. White Bomber

    White Bomber Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That's cause Folley faced weaker opposition on the whole.
     
  15. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Regardless of his opposition, he reached a level Lyle never did. As did Williams, Machen, Valdez etc. So your claim that Folley is a bum compared to Lyle is factually incorrect.