Is Usyks greatness debatable?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by kirk, Aug 22, 2022.


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  1. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Just curious, is Usyks greatness debatable?

    Isnt his greatness immutably contingent on how highly you rate his opposition?

    I would be interested in seeing the lists ranking Usyks top 5 victories. And I would ask, do those top 5 victories make an ATG?

    Im not advocating one way or another, I'm just interested in seeing the discussion.

    Cheers
     
    kirk, Aug 22, 2022
    kirk, Aug 22, 2022
    #1
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  2. miniq

    miniq AJ IS A BODYBUILDING BUM Full Member

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    Is Usyk's greatness rebate-able if Fury stops him?
     
    miniq, Aug 22, 2022
    miniq, Aug 22, 2022
    #2
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  3. Oddone

    Oddone Bermane Stiverne's life coach. Full Member

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    If you focus on his total career, with Usyks history of walking into champions own cities and taking their manhood and souls, Usyk's greatness is already solidified.

    Olympic gold medalist. Unified Crusierweight Champion. The first cruiserweight champion to hold all four major world titles. In 2018 Usyk became only the fourth male boxer in history to simultaneously hold the WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO titles.

    Only four had done it, four.

    Picked up three of the four major world titles at heavyweight in his third fight at the weight, which is history making. Went off to fight for Ukraine in the war. Came back and grabbed the ring heavyweight title in his fourth fight at heavyweight and is looking to unify in his fifth.

    Usyk has done all this in only twenty fights. TWENTY. Usyk didn't pad his record with bums, he went at the best while they were at their best with no fear, or deck stacking nonsense. Usyk beat them in their own backyards.

    What else would you call it?

    Greatness personified.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2022
    Oddone, Aug 22, 2022
    Oddone, Aug 22, 2022
    #3
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  4. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Finally... welcome to the bandwagon Kirk, we've been waiting for you to hop on for years... it's long overdue.:sisi1
     
    CST80, Aug 22, 2022
    CST80, Aug 22, 2022
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  5. DaRealJT

    DaRealJT Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Usyk is great. He became undisputed by beating a solid bunch of cruisers in their hometowns, then moved up and beat the A-side money man twice with the deck stacked against him.
     
    DaRealJT, Aug 22, 2022
    DaRealJT, Aug 22, 2022
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  6. Goran_

    Goran_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Schooled Gassiev & Joshua.. Hes the goods ..
     
    Goran_, Aug 22, 2022
    Goran_, Aug 22, 2022
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  7. ShortRound

    ShortRound Active Member banned Full Member

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    His top 5 wins thus far are probably:

    AJ away
    AJ "neutral"
    Briedis away
    Hunter away
    Chisora away

    He's 20-0 as a pro, has never been verifiably knocked down with a head shot in 376 fights and has never received a significantly controversial decision. He goes to the backyards of contenders and champions all around the world and beats them. No sub-HW had ever conclusively defeated a reigning SHW champion prior to Usyk, let alone as the clear B-side, let alone in his third HW pro fight and his first HW championship fight: Usyk became the first man to do it and repeated the feat against the dethroned champion in the rematch, during the Russo-Ukrainian war.

    Some may wince at Chisora being in the 5th spot ahead of undefeated unified cruiser champion power puncher Gassiev but Chisora gave Usyk a much more competitive fight, pushed Vitali harder than anyone who didn't beat him and he's arguably Vitali's best win in a H2H sense ahead of the inactive, aging, overweight 3 round gas tank Sanders. The best opponents legitimately beaten on Wlad's record in my estimation are Byrd 1, Peter 1 and Haye, which in my view does not compare favourably with Usyk's top 3 and Wlad was typically the home/A-side fighter, with a very considerable size and power advantage. Like Vitali, Wlad had multiple losses on his record, including to a journeyman and what were considered two fringe contenders.

    There were no southpaw heavyweight world champions before the 90's and none of them were nearly as good as Usyk: Moorer, Byrd, Sanders, Sultan. He doesn't just have the strongest claim to being the cruiserweight GOAT but also the southpaw heavyweight GOAT. He's undoubtedly a great fighter.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2022
    ShortRound, Aug 22, 2022
    ShortRound, Aug 22, 2022
    #7
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  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Is it debatable, only in terms of how high you rank him.

    If he beats Fury I think he has a solid argument for GOAT.
     
    lufcrazy, Aug 22, 2022
    lufcrazy, Aug 22, 2022
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  9. HEADBANGER

    HEADBANGER TEAM ELITE GENERAL Full Member

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    I don't think it's debatable, his skillset, inparticularly his footwork and angles are elite level, fury is gonna decimate him.but that doesn't detract from Usyks elite boxing IQ.
     
    HEADBANGER, Aug 22, 2022
    HEADBANGER, Aug 22, 2022
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  10. Mordechai

    Mordechai Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Usyk is already right now the goat at cruiser and a first ballot hof and an atg.

    If he beats fury and becomes undisputed, then my dear friends we are talking about the goat of modern times!
     
    Mordechai, Aug 22, 2022
    Mordechai, Aug 22, 2022
    #10
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  11. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Not remotely debatable.

    And this first paragraph is very important

    Remember everything, literally everything, Usyk has achieved amateur and pro, has been achieved with zero deck-stacking, zero A side advantage or unfair advantage, and zero dirty tactics in or out of the ring.

    I can assure you many of the greats wouldn't be quite so great or even some not great at all without their stacked decks, advantages wangled at the negotiating table, and cheating

    Not only does he fight the best and duck no one but time and time again he takes them on in their backyard where everything is stacked in their favour. Very few fighters would do that

    He won, defended, and unified all his world titles in his opponent's backyards sans two defences and they were both on neutral soil.

    He's never had home advantage even once for any of his world title fights

    Had a grand total of two officials for all his fights since moving up to the world level whereas, conversely, across the pond they often have four for just one world title fight and I mean even when facing foreigners and you better believe that poop matters big because it really do

    20-0-0

    P4P#2 in just 19 fights (was #1 for short while and will likely be elevated back up to #1 now)

    Unified the CW division in just 15 fights

    Three belt unified HW king in just 19 fights

    Olympic gold medalist
    World Amateur Championships gold & bronze
    European gold & bronze medalist

    Won all those gold medals on the road

    He was robbed in the 2008 Olympics against the eventual semi-finalist that year

    WBC CW champion
    WBA CW champion
    IBF CW champion
    WBO CW champion
    WBA HW champion
    IBF HW champion
    WBO HW champion


    Ring Magazine champion at HW and CW
    Ranked #2 P4P by The Ring Magazine
    Winner of the Muhammad Ali trophy

    Beat

    WBA, IBF and WBO champ AJ (24-1) in England
    Beat former WBA, IBF and WBO AJ (24-2) in Saudi
    WBA and IBF champ Gassiev (26-0) in Russia
    Beat WBC champ Briedis (23-0) in Latvia
    Beat WBO champ Glowacki (26-0) in Poland
    Beat former long reigning WBO champ Huck (40-4-1) in Germany
    Beat former WBC champ Bellew (30-2-1) in England
    Beat Michael Hunter (12-0) in the US
    Beat Mchunu (17-2) on neutral soil
    Beat Chisora (32-9) in England

    Look at this gauntlet of KO artists and legit punchers he's fought

    AJ x 2, Gassiev, Briedis, Glowacki, Chisora, Bellew, Huck, Hunter, and even Witherspoon can crack and he beat them all in their backyards and didn't touch the canvas once.

    And if people think that's not impressive or that facing that amount of KO artists and legit bangers in his last 11 fights isn't then they better be prepared to hold their current favs to the same standard because there are numerous fighters ranked in the P4P top 10, top 5 even, who've barely fought any at all let alone ones their own size or way bigger and ever so coincidentally when they have they've either been dropped or hurt


    Ring Magazine Fighter of the Year (2018)
    ESPN Fighter of the Year (2018)
    Sports Illustrated Fighter of the Year (2018)
    CBS Fighter of the Year (2018)
    Boxing Writers Association of America Fighter of the Year (2018)
    Boxing News Fighter of the Year (2018)

    P4P#1 funniest boxer on the planet

    P4P#1 most charismatic despite barely being able to speak English

    P4P#1 most fearless

    P4P#1 road warrior

    He does things religiously at the drop of a hat that some of the greats never dared do once and most other fighters wouldn't even contemplate doing near as often as he does

    And he conducts himself like a champion both in and out of the ring and is just one of the nicest, most humble, most fearless and classy fighters you could ever hope for
     
    Serge, Aug 22, 2022
    Serge, Aug 22, 2022
    #11
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  12. Oddone

    Oddone Bermane Stiverne's life coach. Full Member

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    I reported this post for plagiarism. :nonono
     
    Oddone, Aug 22, 2022
    Oddone, Aug 22, 2022
    #12
    Serge likes this.
  13. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Look at how classy he is here even after AJ's despicable behaviour

    This content is protected
     
    Serge, Aug 22, 2022
    Serge, Aug 22, 2022
    #13
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  14. Goran_

    Goran_ Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    20 fights.
     
    Goran_, Aug 22, 2022
    Goran_, Aug 22, 2022
    #14
  15. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    :lol: I plagiarized myself because it's a copy & paste of an old post
     
    Serge, Aug 22, 2022
    Serge, Aug 22, 2022
    #15
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