Marvis Frazier against his father's pre-Ali opposition?

How does Marvis perform against the opponents his father defeated before the FOTC? Ellis, Quarry, Bonavena, et al?

 

My own two cents:

I sometimes wonder whether the differences between father and son are overstated. Marvis was about the same size as his father, and was a talented fighter in his own right. Joe Frazier trained Marvis, and gave Marvis half his DNA. (Not that Joe was in exceptional physical health, mind you.) On paper, there aren't many people better qualified to do a Joe Frazier impression.

I think a lot of the son's troubles came from the fact that he wasn't fighting guys the same size as the ones his father faced up to 1971. Marvis may well have beaten most of his dad's opposition from when Joe was climbing the ranks. (That and his father's over-achieving matchmaking.)

 

It’s a tough question to answer. For one thing, Marvis Frazier had a very short career. What we do know is that he showed he could beat some fighters who were at least decent like Bonecrusher smith, Jose Ribalta, James Tillis, and a resurgent Joe Bugner. What he didn’t do well with were guys who pressed an onslaught early. If he could get out of the early rounds without getting into trouble then he might have done well against some of his fathers opponents. I can see him outboxing Chuvalo, Bonavena and Mathis. Ellis and Quarry would have been extremely tough challenges for him however.

 

Marvis could actually box pretty well, the problem came when his father tried to mold him into a more aggressive fighter. Add into the mix that he put his son up against a prime Larry Holmes in his eleventh fight. That and a close to prime Tyson would derail anyone.

Had he been moved carefully early in I could easily see him beating the guys his father beat but he was never going to be a champion like his dad.

 

I’ve read that about him too. That he was a natural boxer who his father tried to turn into a banger. That and he forced him into shark infested waters too early. Sounds like his dad did him a real disservice.

 

Good thread idea, haven’t watched much of Marvis but what I will say is that I believe Joe started pulling apart his sons style when Bert Cooper left the scene? I am aware Bert was someone Frazier really liked and wanted to mould, had a lot of what Marvis didn’t really.

 

Marvis was a good boxer but he wasn't as strong as his dad and certainly didn't have the firepower and chin his father possessed. Beyond that his father had a different mentality. To fight that style you need, chin, power also Supreme conditioning. The confidence that comes with that.
The attack at all times mindset is something you have to be born poor to truly have. Frazier and Marciano two most obvious examples. They didnt want to win. They needed to win. Marvis was/is a good dude but no he would never have that gift of desperation.

No Marvis may resemble Joe outwardly but he isn't in the same zip code with dad once the bell rings. Even defensively there hasn't been a heavyweight of any size that bobs and weaves quite like Joe Frazier did since he retired.

Marvis probably loses all those fights. Perhaps he could get a decision over Machen he could hold his own vs Ziggy.

 

If George Benton continues to train him he becomes a fringe contender.

 

He beats Bob Foster but loses to all the other contenders like Ellis, Quarry, Bonavena, etc. M.Frazier was like a deer in the head lights when he got hurt.

 

Not fair but Marvis was a more than decent fighter in his own right. He doesnt share his pops success regarding the same fighters but that should not hold him back as he was a fine fighter in his own right

 

What he didn’t do well with were guys who pressed an onslaught early. If he could get out of the early rounds without getting intotrouble then he might have done well Makes him sound very much like his father. Marvis’s biggest problem was style; his father was an all time brawler, he was a good boxer. He was his father’s son, Joe wanted a carbon copy.
Marvis would have been better served with a trainer who knew how to work with him. Someone like an Emanuel Stewart, or Gil Clancy who could have helped him enhance his boxing skills and taught him how to pick his times to punch (not unlike Floyd Patterson).

 

he gets beat up Oscar Bonavena & an old Eddie Machen & retires

 

I agree.

 

Most of those guys would take Marvin, possibly Machen he does beat.

 

Where is cross_trainer these days?