OLD Film Footage done Right, the fighters look perfectly NORMAL...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by thistle, Sep 18, 2022.


  1. thistle

    thistle Boxing Junkie

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    here's some good footage of Auz's Ron Richard verse Gus Lesnevich 1938, and others too...

    the footage isn't crystal clear, but it is 'Proper footage' where you can clearly see proper fighting, just like you see in modern footage and TV today.

    so as I've always stated "When the filming is right, the fighters are right, except back then they did it every few weeks or so, times 15 - 20 year careers.

    so next time someone says "the Old Fighters weren't as skilled or fit, or didn't have 'todays' training - Show them this.

    Oh and I forgot to mention, Most of them did it Every Month or two X 15 & 20 years.

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  2. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    First off, terrific post ! The issue about old timers vs today starts with there is no definitive line that crosses over .. there is no doubt that the sport evolved and modified to a degree as a whole .. there was a gigantic jump from a Sullivan who was a true gladiator but a M of Q fighter only in the sense of the rules .. no jab, little body work, few combinations, training without ever sparing, etc to say the age of Corbett .. while Corbett began a transformation likely also taking place on a parallel path with many of the Australian fighters the next ten to fifteen years saw a broad based morphing staggered where you have great fighters showing new skills while others did not .. I stress began because when you watch Corbett while it is easy to see his speed and movement and conditioning it's had not to cringe watching his stiff armed punching and head turning while swinging .. from 1900 to bout 1920 you saw a huge shift with fighters like Gans, Leonard, Blackburn, Johnson and others .. You also had guys like Jeffries and Ketchel, beasts but still painful to watch at times .. There are a few ways to look at this ... the first is about "presentism" .. gaging fighters greatness based on today's rules vs thinking who had the aptitude to morph in an all things being equal matchups .. anyway , again, nice post.
     
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  3. thistle

    thistle Boxing Junkie

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    Agree hegrant, I have said similar things with less analyses, simply by recognizing a progression in Athleticism & Technique by the mid/late20s, from Crude Brute Fighting to a much more Stylish & Asthetical refined Art ...

    that's not to say the Brutal Men of past days wouldn't be a hard fight, but to say the just as tough, street fighting Athlete, Skilled and Fit fighter, wouldn't be better is illogical.

    Anyway, more's the point, that it Is NOT the Fighters from the 20s on that were poor, it was the Film Footage.

    and footage like this (1938), Clearly Shows it, add the Career Fight Scheduals, adds up to "quite remarkable".
     
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  4. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    There were advances in training with weights, etc but I feel a trade off is the volume of fights, experience etc ...
     
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  5. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Joe Louis looks great on film. I think many of the old timers may shock people if they got dug up and "Freakinstine" and then we put boxing gloves on em and say go win a few belts.
     
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  6. Barrf

    Barrf Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Louis looks modern on film. Grab him in his prime with a time machine, drop him down in the modern cruiser division, sit back and watch the destruction.
     
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  7. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    I think it would be more real if they got brought back like Frankistine then somehow making a time machine lol.

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  8. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    The film is sped up a lot (watch the ref) but the fighters look like they're in normal speed. That means they were slow.
     
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  9. Pat M

    Pat M Well-Known Member Full Member

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    nice observation. Something looked wrong with the video, but as you mentioned the fighters don't look "fast." But I looked again and the referee looks "fast" like he is sprinting around the ring. When people "tinker" with the old videos there is often an agenda behind the "tinkering" and it looks like you found the agenda with this one.

    The referee's feet move like an NFL defensive back. The fighters don't even look fast, as you mentioned they must have been SLOW.
     
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  10. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    Either that or the ref was coked out of his mind.
     
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  11. Pat M

    Pat M Well-Known Member Full Member

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    LOL, watch the ref's feet at about 14-15 seconds, if that was real speed, he could play point guard in the NBA or DB in the NFL.
     
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  12. thistle

    thistle Boxing Junkie

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    I just watched it again, that is nearly 85 year old film, the Ref and other people, corner men and such are all moving 'Normal' and the Quality, though not perfect, is clear enough to see normal moment... so there isn't too much one can say about that.

    As the Old Poster, Burt Bienstock, you'd to say... " I can assure you, people used to Walk, Run, Fart, Poop, Fight and Bonk the same then as they do now".

    When the FILM is Right, so too are the Boxers... poor quality film footage has always been the misleading element proving that!

    But, as here, there is 'Some' Good Quality OLD Film Footage out there to prove it. For some reason Australia seems to have a good collection of it... a few years ago I posted some 1940 South African footage that was quality enough showing perfectly normal fighting too.

    the Evidence is Out There!
     
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  13. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    The ref is not normal speed, but you’re welcome to pursue whatever delusion you’d like, as long as nobody gets hurt.
     
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  14. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don’t think pre 30s it was the same but I do find the coincidence that many consider the 60s/70s as the golden era. Maybe color tv had something to do with it
     
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  15. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It seems that the film runs a bit too fast, but if you slow down it to 0.75, then it becomes unnaturally slow. It means that the film doesn't run at 100% correct speed, but it's not sped up "a lot".
     
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