Holyfield survived a perfect right to the chin by Foreman without so much as being knocked down. Tyson isn't scoring a quick KO on him. He'll survive the early storm and start ramping up and taking over as Tyson starts to tire. To beat a prime Tyson would take the right toolset, top tier durability, lack of fear, and top tier 'heart'. All of which Holyfield had. I think he had Tyson's number even prior to the Evan Fields days.
Holyfield was older and has a more grueling fighting style so he took more punishment on average. Tyson should always be the closer to prime physically at any point in their careers. So unless we are talking about transporting 88 Tyson to fight 99 holyfield I'm always taking evander.
Correct. I couldn't find any statements by him regarding the use of PEDs. I thought at one point he admitted to using them, but I guess not. I think without steroids it would have been impossible for Holyfield to move up to heavyweight (and dominate) and it would have been very difficult to fight a mike tyson that outweighs you by 40lb. This is why I don't Holyfield a lot of merit. In my book, he was the best doper in all time, but not the best boxer. You know, like Lance Armstrong and that whole situation.
You have to be towards the brain surgeon side to have a good understanding of even a good portion of the relatively superficial understanding of how the braiaiaian works. Maybe you were not being literal, but I believe Tyson never mentioned using crack. There is also no debate that he used hard drugs, nor reason to claim he made anything up to glorify himself instead of reporting the facts-that often do not make him look good. But my post was not about recreation & de-enhancing drugs. I addressed the claim that Tyson admi He might, but there are many reasons he may not. He trained in old school ways. D'amato would be likely disapprove-in part because he would not believe it would help Tyson-& may well hurt him. Which is also because he did not need more bulk or strength: he was naturally heavily muscled early, even when poor & before boxing. It is the exact mirror image of the extreme naivety that claims nobody ever uses, or nobody not caught uses, or that all those detected were false positives or due to contaminated substances... To have extreme, unsupported cynicism & believe on Pure Faith, absent any evidence, that everybody or almost all used PEDs. There are many reasons including concern for ethics, health, punishment, being shamed-that guys might not use. And tons of motivations TO use. It is neither rational nor fair to assume everybody is a liar & cheater. My post was contesting the claim from 2 posters Tyson admitted using PEDs. So far nobody can show he said this; they are mistaken. Again he MAY have used; but it is reason-free to assume he or anyone did. Or savage everyone's reputation when we do not know if say a healthy minority, or most people use. Whether dabbling or regularly.
You have to be towards the brain surgeon side to have a good understanding of even a good portion of the relatively superficial understanding of how the braiaiaian works. Maybe you were not being literal, but I believe Tyson never mentioned using crack. There is also no debate that he used hard drugs, nor reason to claim he made anything up to glorify himself instead of reporting the facts-that often do not make him look good. But my post was not about recreational & de-enhancing drugs. I addressed the claim that Tyson admitting using PEDs, which you did not dispute. Nor anyone else yet.
I agree completely, except without PEDs Holyfield would have been outweighed by roughly 12-25 pounds. We can use his in-ring weight when he had to make 190 for CW, I think that was before day before weigh ins. Or more likely when he was 205 at HW, I do not think this would have been tough for him to make naturally. Assuming he was not juicing by then... But 217 lbs & very lean, with most muscle just in his upper body is a different story.
This in the late 80s was a very interesting proposal. It seemed that they were destined to meet .they did but much latter . Tyson seemed unbeatable back then the prospect of someone doing it was very hard to believe. Tyson getting beaten was a huge shock to me at 17 .
The man himself said Foreman was the hardest puncher he faced. He said the main reason he survived was because Foreman's jabs had so much damn force behind them they sometimes pushed Hoylfield out of reach of the follow-up right hand. Bowe could hit pretty damn hard too and couldn't keep Hoylfield down for the 10 count despite hurting and dropping him badly. Yup Holyfield had all those qualities. Not sure why people think he was fragile or lacked fortitude in his prime.
prime Tyson gives Holyfield a lot more trouble, Tyson was pretty good in their first fight and it's not like Holyfield absolutely smoked him, look at how much more brutal Tyson's 6-4 was in the 80's, I would say the one he landed on Holyfield was maybe 70% and it still stung Holyfield and got him backing up, if Tyson was throwing those all night like he did in his prime it would not be good for Holyfield This content is protected
I think the issue is that the early version of Holyfield in the late 80s and early 90s, would often get dragged into wars too much and that could be his downfall vs Tyson. Holyfield was badly rocked by Cooper, Stewart, went 10 rounds of hell vs Dokes. If Tyson is in any of those situations he could very well of finished the job. The Holyfield of 96 who cameback refreshed and as i said earlier juiced to the gills. Yes i know i have no evidence i'm just "surmising". But that version of Holyfield was more savvy and executed a smart gameplan vs Tyson. I don't think the early Heavyweight version of Holyfield would of fought like that vs Tyson. Now i'm not ruling out Holyfield completely, i still think he has a good chance vs Tyson. But when i see Holyfield almost being knocked out by the likes of Bert Cooper, and getting into all these wars. I think to myself what if that was Tyson in there ?
Has anyone here read Tyson's book? Ever listened to his podcast? We'd know if he juiced because he'd have admitted it. He appears mentally incapable of not answering questions honestly and of not oversharing, even when it makes things mega awkward. If Tyson had juiced, he'd have told us what he did, when he did it, then shared some awkward story about it giving him a limp dick this one time with a girl which them caused him to go into a roid rage and knock holes in the wall, leaving him wishing he'd stayed in prison, man he really loved being in prison and used to think of doing something to earn life in prison. Then he'd start crying, pull out a huge joint, light it, start talking about how he loves his wife and kids, by the way have you guys tried licking those poison hallucinogenic toads?
